Christians who are not ashamed of it need to STAND UP!

(author) Katelyn · Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:10 am

Our country is going to ruins. And fast. What are we Christians waiting for? Isn't this what we are for? To help, to share the news of Jesus? But most Americans (And other races) do not know him. Is that fair? Should we talk and boast about being a Christian, but not tell anyone else about BEING a Christian? Ever since I got saved, I was proud to be a Christian. I wanted everyone else to feel the way I did. Free. Happy. I didn't care what people thought of me. Telling people about Jesus when I was 4 was a whole lot easier than it is now, when I'm 13 in 11 days. Yeah, I'm only 12 (13 on the 11th!) but I feel this burden inside me to get Christians up and moving. What are we waiting for, the Rapture? Then it will be too late. So why allow the devil to take them? We should be fighting for them, not against them. So, now what? We get where we need to be with the Lord, and then show the others the way.

Robert Tulip · Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:53 am

Are you for real Katelyn?

Dexter · Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:54 am

I don't want to speak for the rest of the forum, but I think your preaching will only be tolerated as long as it is amusing.

Weren't you trying hard to resist coming back here?

wilde · Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:19 am

I'm pretty sure the majority of Americans are Christian... and a lot of the rest know about Jesus. Not sure where you got that one from.

Interbane · Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:49 am


	Quote: Our country is going to ruins. And fast. What are we Christians waiting for? Isn't this what we are for?

Yes! Spread the Hate!

http://www.indyposted.com/136777/unbeli ... -protests/

(author) Katelyn · Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:57 am

No, most Americans do not know Jesus. What I mean by know is a personal relationship. I am not spreading 'hate'. Yes, I am real. I am not trying to be 'amusing'. I'm trying to get people to stand up and not be ashamed of it. The audience I'm trying to reach is teens. Teens want to be cool and part of the crowd. I don't. Christian teens want friends and popularity, when they should be telling friends about Jesus. You think I'm crazy, go right ahead. This was a post for Christians, not something else to argue on. Lets save Athiest post for that.

johnson1010 · Fri Sep 30, 2011 2:14 pm


	Quote: To help, to share the news of Jesus? But most Americans (And other races) do not know him. Is that fair?

"Americans" aren't a race.


	Quote: Ever since I got saved, I was proud to be a Christian. I wanted everyone else to feel the way I did. Free. Happy. I didn't care what people thought of me. Telling people about Jesus when I was 4 was a whole lot easier than it is now, when I'm 13 in 11 days.

I gotta say that you have not sounded very free in your posts. In fact you seem shackled to your myth. You aren't free to question. To think on your own. To investigate paths to knowledge freely offered. To the deep understanding of reality, with concrete immediate impact on your ability to live in this world, offered to you by science. So far it's been all knee-jerk hysteria.

And the HOLY RAGE evident in your posts leads me to suspect you aren't particularly happy either.

Robert Tulip · Fri Sep 30, 2011 4:00 pm

There is a fine discussion in The Brothers Karamazov, a book we read at booktalk, of how religion provides consolation for the poor, deprived and oppressed. An old Russian peasant women receives a blessing from a priest, as the only thing that gives meaning and hope for her life. Belief in the miraculous can be better than the grinding despair of ordinary existence, and there is a sense in which "finding Jesus" can be an improvement for people who are lost in the sick values of popular culture. Dostoyevsky asks a very pertinent question, whether atheists would deny that the priest is doing a good thing here in giving the poor woman something she fervently desires and that will help her cope with life.

As Katelyn has explained, her personal circumstances include a lot of sadness and difficulty. Reading the Gospels can provide a beacon of light and a direction towards a better and more ethical world for very many people in this situation. Far better to say "love God and neighbor" than ignore religion and books completely and do what ever turns you on. Even fundamentalist religion can be an improvement for people in some circumstances, rescuing them from addiction and abuse.

Katelyn, where people here are rather astounded by your comments is that your sort of "Billy Graham" absolute faith in Biblical evangelism actually rests on very shaky foundations when you look in to it. You seem to have taken to heart some of the preaching you have heard about the nature of God and Satan. Just repeating these ideas as though they are an absolute truth requires a series of errors. For a start, the assumption that everything that is not from God is from Satan produces a bigotry against scientific method, as you displayed in calling Charles Darwin wicked. Darwin is one of the greatest ever thinkers, and his ideas help us to understand the reality of how society can evolve and change. But if you just put on blinders like a cart horse, and only see what you want to see, or what is right in front of you, you will miss the real beauty in God's natural creation. I should note, when I speak of God I mean the term as a metaphor for the creative processes in nature, not as a supernatural entity.

Evangelism is regarded with some ridicule because of its narrow and incorrect assumptions. Evangelists are generally incapable of seeing the metaphorical meaning of language in the Bible. Their crude literal messages, things like 'Jesus Saves', create a whole vision of reality that conflicts with scientific observation. At the end of the day, scientific understanding is correct, while supernatural fantasy is incorrect. There is only so much truth in evangelism as is compatible with scientific knowledge. We will be saved by science, not superstition.

So, God Bless, and I will pray for you in your energetic efforts to convert the heathen and lost. Just try to remember that the truth behind your faith is far more complex than your pastors have told you. Check in with us here now and again to let us know how you are going and how many souls you have saved.

tat tvam asi · Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:57 pm


	Quote: The audience I'm trying to reach is teens.

On BT? Just how many teens and tweens do you suppose frequent this highly intellectual, book smart, freethinking oriented environment? lol

wilde · Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:55 pm

tat tvam asi wrote:


	Quote: The audience I'm trying to reach is teens.

On BT? Just how many teens and tweens do you suppose frequent this highly intellectual, book smart, freethinking oriented environment? lol

I'm technically a teen until next July. Shhhh!

Chris OConnor · Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:08 am


	katelyn wrote: No, most Americans do not know Jesus. What I mean by know is a personal relationship.

You're regurgitating what you've been taught in your religious indoctrination but it doesn't make one iota of sense.

Jesus (if he even existed) was crucified on the cross (as were thousands of criminals and public nuisances) so the guy (assuming he ever existed) is dead. Gone. Decomposed. You aren't able to have a "personal relationship" with a dead, gone and decomposed person unless you are delusional.

Socrates (who probably existed) died from Hemlock poisoning while in custody in 399 B.C. Socrates is also dead, gone and decomposed. Are you able to have a "personal relationship" with Socrates? No matter what we know (or believe we know) about the life and teachings of Socrates, via his pupil Plato, we can never have a personal relationship with him. Plato did, we can assume, but we can't. Because Socrates is deceased. Make sense?

You've been brainwashed into thinking (this is a delusion) that you have a "personal relationship" with Jesus when you have never met him, he died thousands of years before you entered the scene, you cannot see, touch, feel, smell, taste or hear Jesus today. All you can do is close your eyes and pretend that you have this wonderful relationship with the guy. But it ain't happening because it can't happen. Jesus is dead.

Oh, I know. Jesus rose from the dead and floated up in the sky and now resides in heaven with his father where he oversees millions of innocent men, women and children dying horrific deaths every year here on Earth. You really want to believe in this fairy tale of a deity? You really want a "personal relationship" with such a being that knows all, can do all, and is posited to be loving, yet he sits back on his cloudy throne and watches children getting hit by cars, old ladies being brutally raped and innocent hikers being beheaded because they accidentally crossed a man-made line in the sand. This is your God? Jesus cares enough to have a "personal relationship" with you yet he allows little babies to be shaken to death by fathers with control issues? Does that really make sense to you?

Your personal relationship with Jesus is a delusion.

tat tvam asi · Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:19 am

Harsh words, but all true. As an SDA Christian I was told that the only reason Jesus is standing by watching and allowing all of this sin in the world to take place is because the earth is being watched by all of the angels in heaven and all of the other worlds out there created by God that did pass the test of sin in there gardens. As it goes in SDA doctrine, the earth is the only world in existence that did not pass the test of sin in the garden, and so the wages of sin have to be allowed to run a full course until everyone watching from afar can see for themselves that it's a dead end path to take. Only then can God come down and destroy the earth with fire and start over again. It's a creative little apology that serves to immune SDA's from the sort of questions that atheist's ask about sin and why God allows it to continue.

But, we're talking about people coming along in the 1800's and trying to build apologies on top of a mythology to try and make some type of sense out of the mythology that doesn't make any real sense in the first place. The only reason that SDA's have the apology of other sinless worlds watching sin run it's natural course is because the founder Ellen G. White - a frontal lobe epileptic - claimed elaborate visions from God where she traveled with angels through the universe to other worlds and eventually heaven, where, she and the 144,000 elect mentioned in the book of Revelation entered the "Heavenly Temple" and ventured into the "Most Holy Place." lol

Like Chris said, permitting that Jesus even existed historically in the first place (there's no credible evidence to even prove that he ever did) he's obviously long dead. This isn't any different than Hari Krishna's claiming a personal relationship with Krishna, or something to that effect. Obviously, there was never any "Blue Boy" running around in India historically. I'm sure that you understand that. And if the "Blue Boy" was simply a mythological character built up from an historical core, the historical person was not the "Blue Boy" of mythology. That person is long since dead permitting that he ever existed in the first place. There's no credible historical evidence to prove that any such person ever did exist. The same is true of the Buddha. Maybe there was one fixed historical person at the core of the myth and maybe there wasn't, we don't have enough credible information to make a concrete conclusion. What we have are elaborate myths written in the language of mythology, the language of mythology being metaphor and allegory. That's all we have to go by. And no amount of apologetics will ever suffice to change the fact that believing in these myths as real concrete history is largely delusional at best...

Dexter · Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:32 am

Interbane · Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:25 am


	Quote: Harsh words, but all true. As an SDA Christian I was told that the only reason Jesus is standing by watching and allowing all of this sin in the world to take place is because the earth is being watched by all of the angels in heaven and all of the other worlds out there created by God that did pass the test of sin in there gardens. As it goes in SDA doctrine, the earth is the only world in existence that did not pass the test of sin in the garden, and so the wages of sin have to be allowed to run a full course until everyone watching from afar can see for themselves that it's a dead end path to take. Only then can God come down and destroy the earth with fire and start over again. It's a creative little apology that serves to immune SDA's from the sort of questions that atheist's ask about sin and why God allows it to continue.

I like this story. How does the devil fit in, or other fallen angels?

tat tvam asi · Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:04 pm

It is a strange twist isn't it. :lol:

As for the full scope of the SDA apology I mentioned, it's standard practice to view God and his dwelling in heaven as eternal and uncreated - no beginning or end. Creation basically starts with the angels and other human beings from other worlds out there which are all viewed as creations of God akin to us here. As it goes, God created the angels before humans which had been around for some time before Lucifer eventually decided to revolt against God in heaven. It's believed that after the devil was cast out of heaven for revolting he roamed around trying to decieve people on other worlds but without any real luck at all. The other planets that were being created and tested never went for the forbidden fruit offered and so the devil was not able to reside there on those planets.

Then comes earth. Finally a place where people were willing to roll the dice and give the tree of knowledge of good and evil a try. So, with everyone in eternity out there beyond this world watching the devil win over some human converts to sin (like he had already done with 1/3 of the angels in heaven), God couldn't just zap the humans and Satan all and once and be done with it right away. No, then the other worlds out there watching it all would think that God is an unfair God, just as Satan had alleged of God while residing as Lucifer in heaven. No, God had no choice but to allow sin to run a full natural course with everyone out there watching to see that God had been fair and just throughout.

The plan of salvation was already in order by the all knowing God since before the dawn of creation of this world (as stated in the bible). But only God knows the future, the future where man would sin, be offered salvation through Jesus Christ, and eventually fire cleansed and remade as new to rejoin the other sinless worlds of eternity at long last. :lol:

This shite gets wild. I need to stop laughing and gather myself to continue.

Anyways, the other worlds don't know the future like God does and so they can only know that God is fair and just and approve of God fire cleansing the earth 'after they've all personally witnessed the earth dam near destroy itself' proving beyond reasonable doubt that "the wages of sin is death." Then, if sin ever pops up again, God can just zap it right then and there because the point had been proven and there will be no need to allow it play out ever again after this one special time. I mean people sat down in the mid 1800's and tried their best to come up with what they thought was an apology to top all apologies and that's basically what Adventism is. There's much more detail that I could go into but that's the basic jist of the linear model of time as per the teachings of Ellen G. White and the Seventh Day Adventist Conference...

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