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Christ In Egypt: Introductory Remarks 
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Post Re: Christ In Egypt: Introductory Remarks
AlSylvester wrote:
. . . What they found is how nature worked. All comes from a seed or egg type. They used an egg, it has all you need, and over a time period they perfected the matter. It took a 16 month process. It was done outside by what is found there.


I'm trying to follow this conversation, but I get lost in your posts. You keep talking about matter but obviously you have as different definition for it than the one I'm used to. Why don't you start a new thread and explain what you think alchemy is.


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Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:55 am
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Post Re: Christ In Egypt: Introductory Remarks
tat tvam asi wrote:
Let's see, you are into alchemy and think the real Jesus was an alchemist.

Elton John is a homosexual and thinks that the real Jesus was a homosexual.

I knew a black preacher that was certain that the real Jesus was black.

Robert Tulip considers himself an astrotheology teacher and first began with the assertion that the real Jesus was a great astrotheology teacher.

This is a very common thing in society whereby every Tom, Dick, and Harry sees the real Jesus as a reflection of themselves. And essentially that's what such a solar personification avatar is meant to do. It's supposed to appeal to everyone in that vague sense which can be interpreted in a variety of ways to make people congregate around it.


The Bible is like that. It's such a mishmash you can pretty much interpret it to mean whatever you want. Just read the Malleus Maleficarum which is littered with Biblical quotes in service of its sole goal to prosecute witches.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malleus_Maleficarum

I came across this quote by Harold Bloom recently. Bloom is talking about literature, of course, but I think this applies to history and myth as well.

"The silliest way to defend the Western Canon is to insist that it incarnates all of the seven deadly moral virtues that make up our supposed range of normative values and democratic principles. This is palpably untrue...The West's greatest writers are subversive of all values, both ours and their own. Scholars who urge us to find the source of our morality and our politics in Plato, or in Isaiah, are out of touch with the social reality in which we live. If we read the Western Canon in order to form our social, political, or personal moral values, I firmly believe we will become monsters of selfishness and exploitation. To read in the service of any ideology is not, in my judgment, to read at all."

— Harold Bloom (The Western Canon: The Books and School of the Ages)


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Post Re: Christ In Egypt: Introductory Remarks
A symbolist tour of Egypt:



And then "The Temple of Man" (Luxor) from Schwaller's Alchemist perspective:


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Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:33 am
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Post Re: Christ In Egypt: Introductory Remarks
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Hi Interbane,

Very simply as best as I understand it.


My questions are there for a reason. They represent areas I need more information to understand you. If you're going to post block-type paragraphs, at least copy/paste my question and offer a direct response in a new post. But geo is correct, this is the wrong post to discuss alchemy.



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Post Re: Christ In Egypt: Introductory Remarks
Hi Tat, if I may. Wondered if you had seen the film, "The Lost Tomb of the Jesus Family." I actually know a person tied to that film. They tried in every way to prove it was not the same family, but could not. everything has been checked as well as they could, it is that family. I learned a few things from that short movie. In the entrance to the tomb, was the "Eye of Horus' design. They tried to say that it was some sort of family emblem but it also was seen on the tomb of peter! Jesus also they said, carried the Tau Cross as a sign for his group of followers. I was surprised that the tomb was sealed by the govt. there. The excuse was that children could get hurt if it wasn't sealed. Isn't it funny, the whokle area is one big dig, but that had to be sealed! I also because of this same friend know that soometime this summer, some information is going to be realeased about that find that will get a lot of attention to say the least,. I don't know what it is just that it is about to happen. Now i try to see everything with an open mind. I see the find as being just what it apears, the Lost Tomb of that Family! I can't convince myself that it is just a coincidently find of a family with all the same names. Same gene pool in the persons there, Mary MagDelene, Jesus, a child of thiers, the list is quite long. I have even heard persons from the church discuss it and say things very important.

And so, how do you explain this find and film and closing of the Tomb to protect children? If you check to see who it was that did the film, and put the information out, they are not some "Tom Dick and Harry as you might describe." If the bones are there, and they are, how is that a myth?

Al



Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:36 pm
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Post Re: Christ In Egypt: Introductory Remarks
Ok, so now you're referring to the "Naked Archaeologist" and his quest to prove a real Jesus, as credible proof for the historicity of Jesus? :lol: :lol: :lol:

LINK#1

LINK#2


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C) The Mythicist Position

D) YEC theory put to rest!


Last edited by tat tvam asi on Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:49 pm
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Post Re: Christ In Egypt: Introductory Remarks
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Hi Tat, if I may. Wondered if you had seen the film, "The Lost Tomb of the Jesus Family." I actually know a person tied to that film. They tried in every way to prove it was not the same family, but could not. everything has been checked as well as they could, it is that family.

This thing was worked over by scholars long ago...
Quote:
Jesus tomb film scholars backtrack
Apr. 11, 2007

Several prominent scholars who were interviewed in a bitterly contested documentary that suggests that Jesus and his family members were buried in a nondescript ancient Jerusalem burial cave have now revised their conclusions, including the statistician who claimed that the odds were 600:1 in favor of the tomb being the family burial cave of Jesus of Nazareth, a new study on the fallout from the popular documentary shows.

The dramatic clarifications, compiled by epigrapher Stephen Pfann of the University of the Holy Land in Jerusalem in a paper titled "Cracks in the Foundation: How the Lost Tomb of Jesus story is losing its scholarly support," come two months after the screening of The Lost Tomb of Christ that attracted widespread public interest, despite the concomitant scholarly ridicule.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite? ... e/ShowFull

And of course Murdock put out a blog about it:

DM Murdock wrote:
http://tbknews.blogspot.com/2007/02/jes ... eally.html

"Moreover, one of the individuals in this newest scandal happens to have been involved in the James ossuary hoax. Hence, we could hardly consider this find to be any more credible than that one. We also must make note of the fact that the senior archaeologist on the pertinent excavation, Professor Amos Kloner, says of this fictionalized tale - the new "documentary" of which astoundingly includes famed director James Cameron - "It's a beautiful story but without any proof whatsoever."

As an aside and postscript, if Ray Santilli can be busted for the "Alien Autopsy" hoax, then James Cameron should likewise be found culpable for foisting this fraud upon an unsuspecting public. It rankles me to no end that, when it comes to religious tomfoolery, no one is held accountable for their fraudulent behavior."


So as it stands there remains no credible evidence whatsoever to concretize the historical existence of the gospel Jesus...


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A) The Origins of Religious Worship

B) The Christmas Nativity

C) The Mythicist Position

D) YEC theory put to rest!


Last edited by tat tvam asi on Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Post Re: Christ In Egypt: Introductory Remarks
Hi Tat,

I mentioned when I started this why I wanted certain things to go on and not waste my time. Your a perfect example of what I was talking about. Answer me one thing. As it seems you also know Alchemy, in the Gospel of the Twelve of the Gnostic Gospels. where Jesus gives the desciples a "Bag of Powder " to cure the sick in the village in his name. Knowing as you must that all alchemists had a bag of powder, how do you define what is being done? Is that a miricle or is that a medicine that Jesus is using? If a medicine, do you think that it could be the same powder the Alchemists used. Also consider that it is made from an egg, that Mary MagDelene is tied to a Red Egg, as I noted the Alchemist and templars. Also that the color of the medicine or the Stone is a purple color, the same as the Robe of Jesus, that it is made by vapor from the sun, the same as that tied to Baptism, the list is endless! How do you dismiss these facts? Ide like to hear it.

Al



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Post Re: Christ In Egypt: Introductory Remarks
Dismiss what facts? You haven't been giving me much in the way of facts. If this is a waste of your time then here's your hat and there's the door Al. Thank you and good evening...


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Post Re: Christ In Egypt: Introductory Remarks
Hi Tat, I have said a lot of things. You have kind of made a joke of everything I said. How would it be if I quote from the Gnostics, and you explain why what I am explaining is wrong? Lets start with something simple.

Jesus said, "When you make the One Two, the below like the above, the inner like the outer, the male and female into one, where neither is male or female, some information about multiplication, then you can enter the kingdom of heaven." This is not exact, but you understand. This is a copy of the ancient science of alchemy, the process of makeing the Philosophers Stone. It is the steps. Now I can show those steps, explain it and tie it to a very lot of information proving that this information is explainable that way.

Now you explain it. This is information buried the last 1800 years and so probably closer to the Truth than what you find in the Bible. That information (from the Bible) has been cleaned of the past. If you do not want to explain this, pick other information from the Gnostics and explain any of it. Surly you can do that. If you think this is not about alchemy, on the alchemy web site, there are at least 37 different series of alchemical material that explain this same process. Atalanta is a very good one, or those tablets of Abraham the jew, those of flamel, those of, well, most alchemists are there. W+hich would you like to explain I give you your choice. The shield of St. Thomas is rather easy, perhaps that one. Many here will be looking to your answer, so please lets move forward.
Al



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Post Re: Christ In Egypt: Introductory Remarks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zoxaj8p6 ... r_embedded Baptism is about the process. We perfect the matter by joining it to the sun. Baptism is about Spirit regained. Why Tat was it Lost? Why did Jesus believe we need to be Baptized? It is a fact Jesus and John taught this? Why and what do we regain and for what reason.

Al



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Post Re: Christ In Egypt: Introductory Remarks
Al, you're telling me that one mythological fantasy, Alchemy, proves another, Jesus. Along the same lines of reason you're using:

The force proves the existence of Luke Skywalker, because, after all, how could Luke Skywalker use the force and explain how it works if he never existed historically?

Both the force and Luke Skywalker are fiction, just as Alchemy and Jesus are the products of fiction. And so is just about everything in the mythology. That's the truth...


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A) The Origins of Religious Worship

B) The Christmas Nativity

C) The Mythicist Position

D) YEC theory put to rest!


Last edited by tat tvam asi on Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:36 pm, edited 3 times in total.



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Post Re: Christ In Egypt: Introductory Remarks
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Now you explain it. This is information buried the last 1800 years and so probably closer to the Truth than what you find in the Bible.


How do you know what is close to the truth, and what is far away? If there is some Alchemy spoken of in the bible, that show nothing more than that one of the authors believed it, or at least wrote of it. Just as L. Ron Hubbard writes of Thetans. Just because someone writes something that they want other people to believe doesn't mean it's true. The problem with beliefs like this is that they aren't transferrable using empirical methods. If you control for variables, Alchemy is nothing more than chemistry. I can make that claim with great confidence, because chemistry is cumulative, where Alchemy is apparently supernatural.

Most Booktalkers are critical thinkers, and there are a select few methods of presenting your ideas without being shot down. Have something empirical, and ground your ideas in facts. Ninety percent of what comes out of people's minds is fiction, so a good filter is needed.



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Post Re: Christ In Egypt: Introductory Remarks
Hi again Tat, I don't think you have listened to anything I said. So, let me repeat it. After many years, something like 25 I found a process using Flamel and Abraham the jew Alchemical tablets. It took me many more years to figure out how to work the steps of the 16 month process. It meant not a lot to me because I never linked it to anything. A friend, one of the persons that worked on the film, Lost Tomb of the Jesus Family, said that he was familier with some of what I was explaining. He introduced me to G. Massey and Egypt, Light of the World. This is some of what I have found the last 8 years or so, perhaps longer. osiris is celebrated over a 16 month time period. The steps are linked to the constellations and the word definitions tied to the constellations are describing what I am doing during the different steps. All the religion of Osiris, and his life is a copy of the process. In ancient Egypt, when they celebrated a religious holiday, it is linked to one of the steps, and is celebrated in accordense to what that step is about. Life, Death, Resurrection is all based on the process, and is celebrated linked to the process. Their burial customs are linked to the process. Jesus is linked to the process. John the baptist is also. But, it is a veery secretive process. Only alchemists have ever spoken of it and I could quote a hundred things and explain where and why it is from the process. Anyone who openly spoke of this secretive material was put to Death, for thousands of years, not just from Jesus foreward. It is not about chemistry as you said. It is about Nature, shape and time and matter all controlled and the result is a process where matter was Perfected as they believed. This matter was the proof that they had found proof of God in the Light.

There is no person that has spoken of this process except in an alegorical way. You and everyone here do not know anything about it except what I have said. All your so called scholars know nothing. To everyone alchemy is lab and chemistry. It is not, never was or ever will be. To most there is no explanation, and even other alchemists have said to me that old material should be destroyed as the Gnostics. Seems if we don't understand, we destroy as worthless! You have that attitude, very near the same. Im a cracpot, well, read the things you have said, it is all above.

What I have found is not easy as everything is tied to it as I have said. But the point as to why i am even here is this. Jesus knew of this process and in his parables he spoke of it. He had and used the medicine. he used Wine as all alchemists, the list is very long. Now the only persons I have ever found to talk of this in any fashion is an alchemists. all feared for thier lives and never openly said anything, "except" Jesus! And it said in the Gnostics, he was killed for it. Now, Im telling you the "myth makers" would not be openly speaking of this material if they knew it. The could not write the things Jesus said if they did not know it. Jesus was a real person, scholed in Egypt, he learned the Magic as it was described, and he was killed for speaking of and using it on regular persons. Now why? If you are fed this medicine, you become a Christos. It is not for regular persons. Jesus was a Christos because he had and used and was fed it. Now if you knew all I am speaking of, you would know he was a real person, "or" the mythmakers just went and talked about the Greatest Secret ever and didn't fear for thier lives, knowing that the information was safe, as no one would ever understand it?? Now does that make sense? Even today, our Scholars know nothing of it and so i guess it worked. Is that what I am to believe?

and you, who professes to know so much really knows nothing of the pasdst, but your so willing based on what you think you know that you dismiss everything because you just arfe so sure of what has been said. "Jesus is a Myth, never was a real person." That is because the ancient s to control people used the past and just changed a few things. It is what the people knew and so let them keep thier religion, just change a few things. Now they celebrate as they want to, just for a different reason which doesn't matter. So long as they pay thier tyth to the right people. And you know what, the past will remain as it is, lost to Society because our so called scholars believe they know it, even though they can't explain it. One question, "What is the Myth based on."? Sir W. Budge believed it was based on something but it was lost.! I guess he was wrong or can you explain it to me as to what it is or is not about.

Al



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Post Re: Christ In Egypt: Introductory Remarks
Al, your comments here illustrate why D.M. Murdock has such a hard time getting a hearing from sensible people. She suffers from 'guilt by association' with the whole range of fantastic magical reconstructions of ancient culture.

You have not provided any evidence for your claims, as far as I have seen. In my reading I have never encountered anything that suggests your ideas represent more than your personal imagination. The magical ideas you are presenting appear to be incompatible with the findings of modern science, putting a massive burden of proof on you to show why anyone should take you seriously.

By contrast, Murdock makes a systematic and exhaustive study of ancient literature in order to show that the conventional opinion that Jesus was a historical individual has no scientific evidence, and that an alternative theory, that Christ is a myth, actually fits and explains all the known evidence. It is a scientific hypothesis that responds logically to the problem of burden of proof produced by the dominance of conventional opinion.

Your style of thinking reads as very similar to the imaginative fantasies of conventional religion, just putting them within an Egyptian gloss. Murdock's approach is very different, presenting a hypothesis that aims primarily at compatibility with modern knowledge.



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Le GuinThe Genius of the Beast by Howard BloomAlice's Adventures in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll Empire of Illusion by Chris HedgesThe Sound and the Fury by William Faulkner The Extended Phenotype by Richard DawkinsSmoke and Mirrors by Neil GaimanThe Selfish Gene by Richard DawkinsWhen Good Thinking Goes Bad by Todd C. RinioloHouse of Leaves by Mark Z. DanielewskiAmerican Gods: A Novel by Neil GaimanPrimates and Philosophers by Frans de WaalThe Enormous Room by E.E. CummingsThe Picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar WildeGod Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything by Christopher HitchensThe Name of the Rose by Umberto Eco Dreams From My Father by Barack Obama Paradise Lost by John Milton Bad Money by Kevin PhillipsThe Secret Garden by Frances Hodgson BurnettGodless: How an Evangelical Preacher Became One of America's Leading Atheists by Dan BarkerThe Things They Carried by Tim O'BrienThe Limits of Power by Andrew BacevichLolita by Vladimir NabokovOrlando by Virginia Woolf On Being Certain by Robert A. Burton50 reasons people give for believing in a god by Guy P. HarrisonWalden: Or, Life in the Woods by Henry David ThoreauExile and the Kingdom by Albert CamusOur Inner Ape by Frans de WaalYour Inner Fish by Neil ShubinNo Country for Old Men by Cormac McCarthyThe Age of American Unreason by Susan JacobyTen Theories of Human Nature by Leslie Stevenson & David HabermanHeart of Darkness by Joseph ConradThe Stuff of Thought by Stephen PinkerA Thousand Splendid Suns by Khaled HosseiniThe Lucifer Effect by Philip ZimbardoResponsibility and Judgment by Hannah ArendtInterventions by Noam ChomskyGodless in America by George A. RickerReligious Expression and the American Constitution by Franklyn S. HaimanDeep Economy by Phil McKibbenThe God Delusion by Richard DawkinsThe Third Chimpanzee by Jared DiamondThe Woman in the Dunes by Abe KoboEvolution vs. Creationism by Eugenie C. ScottThe Omnivore's Dilemma by Michael PollanI, Claudius by Robert GravesBreaking The Spell by Daniel C. DennettA Peace to End All Peace by David FromkinThe Time Traveler's Wife by Audrey NiffeneggerThe End of Faith by Sam HarrisEnder's Game by Orson Scott CardThe Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time by Mark HaddonValue and Virtue in a Godless Universe by Erik J. WielenbergThe March by E. L DoctorowThe Ethical Brain by Michael GazzanigaFreethinkers: A History of American Secularism by Susan JacobyCollapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed by Jared DiamondThe Battle for God by Karen ArmstrongThe Future of Life by Edward O. WilsonWhat is Good? by A. C. GraylingCivilization and Its Enemies by Lee HarrisPale Blue Dot by Carl SaganHow We Believe: Science, Skepticism, and the Search for God by Michael ShermerLooking for Spinoza by Antonio DamasioLies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them by Al FrankenThe Red Queen by Matt RidleyThe Blank Slate by Stephen PinkerUnweaving the Rainbow by Richard DawkinsAtheism: A Reader edited by S.T. JoshiGlobal Brain by Howard BloomThe Lucifer Principle by Howard BloomGuns, Germs and Steel by Jared DiamondThe Demon-Haunted World by Carl SaganBury My Heart at Wounded Knee by Dee BrownFuture Shock by Alvin Toffler

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