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*** Chapter 1 *** - Under Montana's Big Sky


 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    BookTalk.org Forum Index -> Archived Book Discussions 2004-2005 -> Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed - by Jared Diamond
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:09 am    Post subject: Ch 1 Reply with quote
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I believe that this is a classic example of the clash of the economic classes. The wealthy in this country on the whole give no thought of how their wants and desires can affect others.


Has this not always been the case between the wealthy and the not so wealthy?

Quote:
They don't stay in the state long enough to have to pay taxes to help maintain or upgrade the education system, road maintenance, public services-fire, police, etc. Sounds like that they basically stay "with their own kind" and don't even contribute to the local economy by shopping in the local town (which with that kind of shopping power could be a big capital boost to local businesses); It is this kind of "elitist" mentality that has been the catalyst of revolutions which have overthrown governments in other countries in the past.


And it is these same Elitists that vilify the Intellectuals. At least the intellectuals consider things other than personal comfort and self-absorption. Anyway. I agree with this pissed off feeling. It is very obnoxious to see and hear wealthy people talk down about others, just because of income levels and position. I have dealt with this personally in my former employment (and I imagine it will be present at the new to an extent). Many times I had to bite my tongue when my employer would describe the 'undesirably' people we did not want to do business with. Many of these 'undesirably' people could have been friends or family of mine. People who have everyday problems that cannot be assuaged by vast stores of money. People that cannot even live paycheck to paycheck because one paycheck just cannot stretch that far. People who were not lucky enough to be born into a good situation and actually have to struggle to survive.

It makes me sick. Some of these millionaire CEO's and white collar crap heads utilize a near criminal swidden system of self aggrandizement. The problem is, the 'land' never rejuvenates for those who have to stick around.

Quote:
It seemed to me, both as a citizen and as a business-person, that when one acquires a business, one acquires both the good and the bad.


I always thought that too. Assets and Liabilities are assumed in an acquisition. An owner entity reaping the rewards from the same opertaion that has caused much damage to the surrounding environment, without having to answer for those damages should not be allowed to happen.

Quote:
Sorry that the stock holders don't get as big a dividend, the overall positive results the company could get by showing that they do indeed care about the environmental and their fellow American citizens livelihood by aggressively working toward a solution to the problem.


But why does ARCO need to worry about any general public good will. I never heard of ARCO (I have heard of BP) and I never heard of this situation. It is invisible to most people you and I know. People go to the gas station and have their local company deliver fuel oil. We do not tend to ask questions about where this is coming from, instead we hope that the next delivery of oil is not breaking $2 per gallon and hoping that the temperature stays warm enough to keep the heat off. All ARCO has to do is please the purchasers, which are other businesses. That is the problem. Businesses generally do not care about anything but making $$.

Quote:
We as a whole are a very gluttonous society.


I still assert that this is a trait of the species. Humans are all for conservation when they have little. As Diamonds 5 point framework states, over consumption is a problem many human societies have had and have paid the price for. If it was not the USA, it would be someone else. I am not saying that we should not change, but I am saying that blaming the USA for the worlds problems is short-sighted at best.

Quote:
Just watch commercials now days and wonder the demographic to which they are targeting


Yes...can ANYONE here afford a new Lexus or Mercedes for a Christmas present? Can anyone who watches weekday, nightime TV afford these things? No. The people who can generally afford these things are working at the office at these times. They have no quality of life aside from the toys they can buy, and at that point, they do not NEED tv to inform them of their desires. The TV is to show those who do not have what they are missing. IMO.

Mr. P.

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