Chapter 1

Chris OConnor · Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:53 am

Chapter 1

Please use this thread for discussing Chapter 1.

Thomas Hood · Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:43 pm

Orlando is an English Tiresias: sex-change, longevity, insightfulness.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiresias

A literary use: "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: Black Dossier by Alan Moore includes an autobiography of Virginia Woolf's Orlando. This reveals that Tiresias had two daughters. while Manto inherited theer father's prophetic abilities, the other daughter, Orlando (or Bio, as she was then named), found she changed gender as she grew, again inherited from her father. Tiresias is mentioned as having been ashamed at Orlando's gender-changing ability, sold him to pirate slavers and died escorting Manto to become the Oracle at Delphi."

Tom

Ashleigh · Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:12 pm

If we look at chapter one as the start of Orlando's journey through transsexualism and transformation, an act which takes about four centuries, we can see that Woolf has started her character Orlando in a typical, traditional image of a young man in the 1500s and 1600s, the early to mid sixteenth century and seventeenth century. It is in this sequence, as a male aristocrat, that there is a certain comfort to Orlando [which I plan to bring up again later in the last chapters, so I will do my compare and contrast there].

The poet that Orlando sees on page 21 [Oxford University Press edition], whom Woolf describes as "a man who does not see you? who sees ogres, satyrs, perhaps the depths of the sea instead?" could suggest a freedom that Orlando as an aristocrat cannot feel, the freedom to imagine. Physically, and mentally, though he finds comfort as who he is in this world, Orlando is constrained by societal dictation of how he should act.

As the first chapter is set in the Elizabethan Age, the Queen mentioned is Elizabeth I, and it could be assumed that the aforementioned poet is Shakespeare. It then appears to quickly slip in the Jacobean age of King James I of England and IV of Scotland [if I remember my Highland history correctly], and Orlando appears to have married thrice, and be moving away from his aristocratic roots.

The Russian Princess, entering OUP ed page 37 is offset against Orlando, who is the "norm" as an exotic "Other" in England at the time -- 1603. This could be linked to the colonial travels of the time and exploration of exotic lands beyond London and England in general. Here the exotic is shown as desirable and an object of affection in the Princess, named Sasha by Orlando, as opposed to the threatening image of the Other in other writings.

This exoticisation of the Other does not extend to anyone below Orlando as a noble, and anyone who is below him is looked down upon as the true other through the lenses of the time that determined otherness.

The ending of chapter one seems to lead into the next stage of Orlando's development, starting with what seems like a transportation to the next time and place, yet still as a man.

Thomas Hood · Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:00 pm

"The Great Frost was, historians tell us, the most severe that has ever visited these islands. Birds froze in mid-air and fell like stones to the ground" (Orlando, Chapter 1).

The Great Frost appears to be an anachronism:

On December 23rd, 1683, Evelyn describes "a greate frost." The Thames was frozen, and on the 1st of January the weather continuing intolerably severe, streets of booths were set upon the Thames. On the 6th the river was quite frozen over.
http://www.londononline.co.uk/history/thames/4/

If so, them The Preface is humorous verisimilitude.

Orlando's loss of the Queen's favor parallels Raleigh's.

Tom

Thomas Hood · Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:26 pm


	Ashleigh wrote: If we look at chapter one as the start of Orlando's journey through transsexualism and transformation, . . .

But is this really what's happening?

Sparknotes says:


	Quote: After finishing To the Lighthouse in 1927, Woolf was prompted by an attachment to her lover, Vita Sackville-West, and by a strong interest in biographical literature to begin Orlando. She wrote in her diary that Orlando was to be "Vita, only with a change from one sex to another."

But it seems to me that Orlando is Virginia Woolf herself and that the transformation is from tomboy to mature woman, so really there is no sex change.

Tom

Ashleigh · Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:38 pm

He is going to go on some kind of journey through something, it's evident, because of the way chapter 1 ends to bring us into the second chapter.

As for Orlando being Woolf herself, that never occurred to me! It's possible Orlando could be Woolf or Sackville-West, an attempt in a male dominated world [at the time of writing in 1928] for a woman to breakthrough, and show this through time travel.

Thomas Hood · Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:17 pm

A Nest of Reptilian Humanoids

Carly ought to be here. Orlando is a product of the Bloomsbury Group. I had no idea how predatory, deceitful, and venomous these people were -- all of them:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloomsbury_Group

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Apostles

http://www.malcolmingram.com/sex.htm

Well, I wanted to read something different and learn things. The philosopher G.E. Moore provided the intellectual defense for Bloomsbury decadence:


	Quote: . . .what made Principia Ethica so important for Bloomsbury was Moore's conception of intrinsic worth. For Moore intrinsic value depended on an unanalysable intuition of good and a concept of complex states of mind whose worth as a whole was not proportionate to the sum of its parts. The greatest goods for Moore and Bloomsbury were ideals of personal relations and aesthetic appreciation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloomsbury_Group

Tom

Ashleigh · Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:34 pm

Yes, I agree about Orlando being a product of the Bloomsbury Group. That does stand out in much of Woolf's writing [but that can be reserved for another discussion]. Even though Woolf's essay [which I love coincidently] A Room of One's Own was published a year later than Orlando, I feel they have a kinship. Both Orlando and the speaker in the essay are aimless, searching for a place where they will be happy.

If we take one of my earlier points of Orlando's comfort in the first chapter as a male or aristocratic nature, comfortable, but not happy. He seems to be searching for more, which could be symbolised by his interaction with Sasha. He is not truly happy where he is, thus he is aimless and searching for a goal, like the speaker in A Room of One's Own.

It is possible Woolf drew on this aimless or restless feeling of Orlando for the essay but there seem to be parallels in this feeling. Yes, there is a goal in the essay, but it is a restless search.

Thomas Hood · Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:15 pm


	Ashleigh wrote: Yes, I agree about Orlando being a product of the Bloomsbury Group. That does stand out in much of Woolf's writing [but that can be reserved for another discussion]. Even though Woolf's essay [which I love coincidently] A Room of One's Own was published a year later than Orlando, I feel they have a kinship. Both Orlando and the speaker in the essay are aimless, searching for a place where they will be happy.

I need to stop everything and read that essay. It's available at
http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/w/ ... inia/w91r/

Tom

Ashleigh · Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:28 pm

I just want to expand on my last post. I feel that though he is physically comfortable in his first leg of life and travel and transformation, Orlando is not emotionally and spiritually comfortable, and this is why he is restless. He needs to take this journey to find his emotional and spiritual comfort.

In A Room of One's Own, the speaker, like Orlando, is at a discomfort because she cannot find a room of her own to write, and this is her journey to do so - find such a room and thus find a comfort to write in.

Hope that makes sense - took me a few days to clear my mind about that.

Thomas Hood · Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:23 am

SparkNotes for A Room of One's Own is at

http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/roomofone ... ntext.html

I find this essay impossible to read because upfront it's thesis is false: Money is not a precondition for literary success, although it may be a precondition for the Bloomsbury life. Shakespeare began with nothing.

Further, Woolf neglects to say that women dominate in writing fiction because of their superior ability in portraying social relationships. Most best sellers are written by women, and this has always been true. One counter example: Louisa May Alcott began poor and made a fortune, and she is only one of many financially successful women writers of that time.

Wikipedia has a long list of successful women novelists:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Women_novelists
Category:Women novelists

Tom

Ashleigh · Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:02 am

Thanks for the link. Wow, thats a long list! The essay, though the thesis may not be totally relevant, it was something Woolf was trying to prove. In Orlando she was trying to prove [I feel] that one is not always comfortable in the skin they are given.

Lauri-Ann · Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:07 pm

It seems to me that with the relationship with Sasha, Orlando is trying to escape from who and what he is... yet, with the thaw, and the Russian ship sailing away and Sasha not meeting him to run away... he realizes that there is no escape from oneself. I think that's coherent... the thought occurred to me in the middle of the night Tuesday, and this is the first chance I've had to share it.
Lauri

Ashleigh · Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:54 pm

I like your observation Laurie; it does seem like that, and it fits in with the idea of his aimlessness in trying to find who he is, trying to find a spiritual comfort as well as a physical comfort in his life.

pandora · Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:05 am

I want to join in on this discussion but I'm wondering if I will have time enough to order and then read the book, and if anyone will still be interested in discussing it....

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