Ch. 3: Sex

Chris OConnor · Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 9:36 pm Post subject: Ch. 3: Sex

Please use this thread for discussing "Sex," which happens to be the title of Chapter 3. Cool

tarav · Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:56 pm Post subject: The Perfect Woman

I had never heard about the perfect physical dimensions for a woman before reading about it in this chapter! Evidently, a waistline that is 70% of the hip size is the ideal! LOL De Waal is not necessarily convinced that this is a programmed preference. He is bringing up the claim that some evolutionary psychologists have made. So, guys, what do you think?

tarav · Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:08 pm Post subject: Definition of Sex

On p 98 De Waal brings up Bill Clinton and argues that Clinton defined sex too narrowly. This made me remember that poll we had up about determining virginity. It looks like De Waal would not have sided with me on that one. I said you were a virgin until you had intercourse.
An aside: Gotto love those bonobos!!
p.s. I looked for two emoticons humping, but had no luck!

Ophelia · Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:08 pm Post subject:

There is a lot of wisdom in this book-- not only in the third chapter.
There is a lot of honesty, and a warm interest in apes, bonobos and humans which enables the author to tell the truth simply, as he sees it, and with great clarity. In the pages I am going to quote, some half- formed ideas had been there, in the back of my mind, and I simply never made the connections.

It seems that somehow many things start with the drama of infanticide.
De Waal describes an example of langur male monkeys killing the young (p 102 in my book) and says it happened for humans too, and in both cases the males would try to kill the young and the women would try to defend them.
De waal refers to anthropologist Sarah Hrdy, who "drew attention to examamples of infanticides." She theorizes about human defences, one of which is to confuse paternity.
Among apes, "by accepting the advances of many males, a female can buffer herself against infanticide because none of her mates can discard the possibility that the infant is his. In other words, it pays to sleep around."

I find De Waal 's theory about "fatherly assistance", which developed in humans but not in apes (thus giving us an edge!) fascinating.
The idea is that human males are only willing to look after and work for (as well as not kill) infants that are biologically theirs. (It really looks like everybody could think of that one for themselves, but I was surpised-- why hadn't I thought that up for myself before? Surprised

).
So, the choice that humans made is the contrary of the one made by bonobo females.

Ophelia · Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 5:19 pm Post subject: DNA tests

DNA tests.
When DNA tests became an easy thing to do, some years ago, I wondered how this would affect society and whether children would be disowned. Would men suddenly have doubts, or discover incriminating letters, and have the children tested? Somehow I never heard about it, so i imagined some solution had been found.
When I read De Waal mentioning it, I checked what the law in France was, and here is the reason why nothing much has changed.
You cannot legally have your own DNA tests made in France-- people still do them via the internet, but the results cannot be produced in court. The only tests that are accepted are those that are ordered by a judge.
Also, the law seems to have remained just what it was before: a man, whether married or not, has six months to legally accept or refuse a child, and after that no further procedures can be started.


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