Online reading group and book discussion forum
  HOME FORUMS BOOKS LINKS DONATE ADVERTISE CONTACT  
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:41 am




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] • Topic evaluate: Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average. 
Ch. 2, Under the Raft 
Author Message
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Upper Echelon 1st Class

BookTalk.org Moderator
Silver Contributor

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 2467
Location: New Jersey
Thanks: 502
Thanked: 407 times in 325 posts
Gender: Female
Country: United States (us)

Post Ch. 2, Under the Raft
The Tin Drum, Gunter Grass

Book one; chapter two
Under the Raft



Tue Aug 17, 2010 5:22 pm
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Upper Echelon 1st Class

BookTalk.org Moderator
Silver Contributor

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 2467
Location: New Jersey
Thanks: 502
Thanked: 407 times in 325 posts
Gender: Female
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Ch. 2, Under the Raft
In this chapter Oskar gives us a glimpse of what his drum, his tin drum means to him. Oskar’s tin drum has a magical quality about it, he tries to explain as he writes:

“If I didn’t have my drum, which, when handled adroitly and patiently, remembers all the incidentals that I need to get the essential down on paper, and If I didn’t have the permission of the management to drum on it three or four hours a day, l I’d be a poor bastard with nothing to say for my grandparents”, (pg. 25).

The tin drum enables Oskar to continue the story as he tells about his grandfather.



Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:37 pm
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Sophomore


Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 261
Location: Wheaton, Illinois, USA
Thanks: 26
Thanked: 34 times in 31 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Ch. 2, Under the Raft
In the book, we are offered the possibility that Koljaiczek/Wranka survived and emigrated to the US. In the movie that did, in fact happen. Now I don't know, this is my first reading of The Tin Drum, whether we will hear more about Joseph, the defiler of potato roasters, but I like the suspense. He did not come up from under the raft, but maybe he found a crack in the raft to breath through.


_________________
--Gary

"Freedom is feeling easy in your harness" --Robert Frost


Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:17 pm
Profile Email
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Intelligent


Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 554
Location: Connecticut
Thanks: 76
Thanked: 87 times in 78 posts
Gender: Female
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Ch. 2, Under the Raft
I'm interested in this theme of being under things; the skirt, the raft, the table, and Oskar's hesitancy to be born. I'm going to follow this throughout the book and see if I can discover what Grass is saying. Is the world too difficult to bear? Why is Oskar always hiding or showing others hiding? Anyone have any thoughts on this?



Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:19 pm
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Upper Echelon 1st Class

BookTalk.org Moderator
Silver Contributor

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 2467
Location: New Jersey
Thanks: 502
Thanked: 407 times in 325 posts
Gender: Female
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Ch. 2, Under the Raft
I think that is a great observation lindad. By the way, do you mind me calling you lindad?

lindad_amato wrote:
Why is Oskar always hiding or showing others hiding?


During this period there were many things people were hiding, and hiding from. The Jews were hiding, people hid their shame, their fear, their money, and many had to hide their anti patriot feelings for their country. Oskar decides to stop growing at three years old, he is hiding too, hiding in the body of a child. He may have believed that this was the safest shelter for him.

"Is the world too difficult to bear"?
I think a loss of innocence is difficult to bear. The horrors of WWII made the whole world less innocent. Life styles were changed, people's perceptions of one another changed. It's very simular to how many Americans felt after 9/11.

This theme of hiding is an excellent one to follow, and I will look forward to hearing your thoughts on what you find through out the book.



Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:59 pm
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Pop up Book Fanatic


Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 14
Location: Ellington, CT
Thanks: 4
Thanked: 2 times in 2 posts
Gender: Female
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Ch. 2, Under the Raft
Oskar hides from himself too. He often talks about himself in the third person.


_________________
[i][color=#0000BF]Licking the floor of heaven[/color][/i].


Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:07 pm
Profile Email
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Intelligent


Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 554
Location: Connecticut
Thanks: 76
Thanked: 87 times in 78 posts
Gender: Female
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Ch. 2, Under the Raft
sillyme wrote:
Oskar hides from himself too. He often talks about himself in the third person.


I've been watching this also and I can't see any pattern to it. At first I thought the first person/third person changes would signify some mood or outside influence, but they don't seem to. Have you noticed anything?



Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:37 pm
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Upper Echelon 1st Class

BookTalk.org Moderator
Silver Contributor

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 2467
Location: New Jersey
Thanks: 502
Thanked: 407 times in 325 posts
Gender: Female
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Ch. 2, Under the Raft
lindad_amato wrote:
I've been watching this also and I can't see any pattern to it. At first I thought the first person/third person changes would signify some mood or outside influence, but they don't seem to. Have you noticed anything?


I've noticed this quite a bit, and this narrator switching becomes even more prevelant as the story moves forward, especially in the next chapter, "Moth and Light Bulb". This third chapter is one of my favorites and I think it will shed some light as to why this flip flopping is happening.

You mention an "outside influence", well there is one, it is the tin drum. Oskar tells most of his story through the drum. Oskar is allowed to drum away for hours at a time in the institution and this drumming brings memories to the surface for Oskar and tells him things. There are times when it does feel like there are two narrators.

Gary made a fantastic observation in the first chapter, this would be; is Oskar writing an autobiography, or is he writing a novel? This is an interesting observation because Oskar is relating events that he could not have any knowledge about. Oskar is able to tell us about the moment of his birth and is able to describe the room in which the birth occurs. How is this possible? Is he writing a novel, or is he writing an autobiography? If he is indeed writing a novel, Oskar would be a character, a third person character. In an autobiography, Oskar would use the first person narration. However, both are happening.



Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:19 pm
Profile
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Official Newbie!


Joined: May 2010
Posts: 4
Thanks: 0
Thanked: 0 time in 0 post
Gender: Female
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Ch. 2, Under the Raft
While I agree with what you're saying about HIDING, I think that the theme of "under" in this chapter is much broader... The narrator mentions being under watch, and his grandparents are under pressure to get away from the scene of the crime. I'm not sure there is even a word in the English language to describe the full volume of connotation this one word brings in this short chapter.



Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:47 pm
Profile Email
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] • Topic evaluate: Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average. 



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:


A Nation Under Judgment by Richard Capriola


BookTalk.org Links 
Forum Rules & Tips
Frequently Asked Questions
BBCode Explained
Info for Authors & Publishers
Featured Book Suggestions
Author Interview Transcripts
Be a Book Discussion Leader!
    

Love to talk about books but don't have time for our book discussion forums? For casual book talk join us on Facebook.

Featured Books






BookTalk.org is a free book discussion group or online reading group or book club. We read and talk about both fiction and non-fiction books as a group. We host live author chats where booktalk members can interact with and interview authors. We give away free books to our members in book giveaway contests. Our booktalks are open to everybody who enjoys talking about books. Our book forums include book reviews, author interviews and book resources for readers and book lovers. Discussing books is our passion. We're a literature forum, or reading forum. Register a free book club account today! Suggest nonfiction and fiction books. Authors and publishers are welcome to advertise their books or ask for an author chat or author interview.


Navigation 
MAIN NAVIGATION

HOMEFORUMSBOOKSTRANSCRIPTSOLD FORUMSADVERTISELINKSFAQDONATETERMS OF USEPRIVACY POLICY

BOOK FORUMS FOR ALL BOOKS WE HAVE DISCUSSED
Frankenstein - by Mary ShelleyThe Big Questions - by Simon BlackburnScience Was Born of Christianity - by Stacy TrasancosThe Happiness Hypothesis - by Jonathan HaidtA Game of Thrones - by George R. R. MartinTempesta's Dream - by Vincent LoCocoWhy Nations Fail - by Daron Acemoglu and James RobinsonThe Drowning Girl - Caitlin R. KiernanThe Consolations of the Forest - by Sylvain TessonThe Complete Heretic's Guide to Western Religion: The Mormons - by David FitzgeraldA Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man - by James JoyceThe Divine Comedy - by Dante AlighieriThe Magic of Reality - by Richard DawkinsDubliners - by James JoyceMy Name Is Red - by Orhan PamukThe World Until Yesterday - by Jared DiamondThe Man Who Was Thursday - by by G. K. ChestertonThe Better Angels of Our Nature by Steven PinkerLord Jim by Joseph ConradThe Hobbit by J. R. R. TolkienThe Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas AdamsAtlas Shrugged by Ayn RandThinking, Fast and Slow - by Daniel KahnemanThe Righteous Mind - by Jonathan HaidtWorld War Z: An Oral History of the Zombie War by Max BrooksMoby Dick: or, the Whale by Herman MelvilleA Visit from the Goon Squad by Jennifer EganLost Memory of Skin: A Novel by Russell BanksThe Structure of Scientific Revolutions by Thomas S. KuhnHobbes: Leviathan by Thomas HobbesThe House of the Spirits - by Isabel AllendeArguably: Essays by Christopher HitchensThe Falls: A Novel (P.S.) by Joyce Carol OatesChrist in Egypt by D.M. MurdockThe Glass Bead Game: A Novel by Hermann HesseA Devil's Chaplain by Richard DawkinsThe Hero with a Thousand Faces by Joseph CampbellThe Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor DostoyevskyThe Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark TwainThe Moral Landscape by Sam HarrisThe Decameron by Giovanni BoccaccioThe Road by Cormac McCarthyThe Grand Design by Stephen HawkingThe Evolution of God by Robert WrightThe Tin Drum by Gunter GrassGood Omens by Neil GaimanPredictably Irrational by Dan ArielyThe Wind-Up Bird Chronicle: A Novel by Haruki MurakamiALONE: Orphaned on the Ocean by Richard Logan & Tere Duperrault FassbenderDon Quixote by Miguel De CervantesMusicophilia by Oliver SacksDiary of a Madman and Other Stories by Nikolai GogolThe Passion of the Western Mind by Richard TarnasThe Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula K. Le GuinThe Genius of the Beast by Howard BloomAlice's Adventures in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll Empire of Illusion by Chris HedgesThe Sound and the Fury by William Faulkner The Extended Phenotype by Richard DawkinsSmoke and Mirrors by Neil GaimanThe Selfish Gene by Richard DawkinsWhen Good Thinking Goes Bad by Todd C. RinioloHouse of Leaves by Mark Z. DanielewskiAmerican Gods: A Novel by Neil GaimanPrimates and Philosophers by Frans de WaalThe Enormous Room by E.E. CummingsThe Picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar WildeGod Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything by Christopher HitchensThe Name of the Rose by Umberto Eco Dreams From My Father by Barack Obama Paradise Lost by John Milton Bad Money by Kevin PhillipsThe Secret Garden by Frances Hodgson BurnettGodless: How an Evangelical Preacher Became One of America's Leading Atheists by Dan BarkerThe Things They Carried by Tim O'BrienThe Limits of Power by Andrew BacevichLolita by Vladimir NabokovOrlando by Virginia Woolf On Being Certain by Robert A. Burton50 reasons people give for believing in a god by Guy P. HarrisonWalden: Or, Life in the Woods by Henry David ThoreauExile and the Kingdom by Albert CamusOur Inner Ape by Frans de WaalYour Inner Fish by Neil ShubinNo Country for Old Men by Cormac McCarthyThe Age of American Unreason by Susan JacobyTen Theories of Human Nature by Leslie Stevenson & David HabermanHeart of Darkness by Joseph ConradThe Stuff of Thought by Stephen PinkerA Thousand Splendid Suns by Khaled HosseiniThe Lucifer Effect by Philip ZimbardoResponsibility and Judgment by Hannah ArendtInterventions by Noam ChomskyGodless in America by George A. RickerReligious Expression and the American Constitution by Franklyn S. HaimanDeep Economy by Phil McKibbenThe God Delusion by Richard DawkinsThe Third Chimpanzee by Jared DiamondThe Woman in the Dunes by Abe KoboEvolution vs. Creationism by Eugenie C. ScottThe Omnivore's Dilemma by Michael PollanI, Claudius by Robert GravesBreaking The Spell by Daniel C. DennettA Peace to End All Peace by David FromkinThe Time Traveler's Wife by Audrey NiffeneggerThe End of Faith by Sam HarrisEnder's Game by Orson Scott CardThe Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time by Mark HaddonValue and Virtue in a Godless Universe by Erik J. WielenbergThe March by E. L DoctorowThe Ethical Brain by Michael GazzanigaFreethinkers: A History of American Secularism by Susan JacobyCollapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed by Jared DiamondThe Battle for God by Karen ArmstrongThe Future of Life by Edward O. WilsonWhat is Good? by A. C. GraylingCivilization and Its Enemies by Lee HarrisPale Blue Dot by Carl SaganHow We Believe: Science, Skepticism, and the Search for God by Michael ShermerLooking for Spinoza by Antonio DamasioLies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them by Al FrankenThe Red Queen by Matt RidleyThe Blank Slate by Stephen PinkerUnweaving the Rainbow by Richard DawkinsAtheism: A Reader edited by S.T. JoshiGlobal Brain by Howard BloomThe Lucifer Principle by Howard BloomGuns, Germs and Steel by Jared DiamondThe Demon-Haunted World by Carl SaganBury My Heart at Wounded Knee by Dee BrownFuture Shock by Alvin Toffler

OTHER PAGES WORTH EXPLORING
Banned Book ListOur Amazon.com SalesMassimo Pigliucci Rationally SpeakingOnline Reading GroupTop 10 Atheism BooksFACTS Book Selections

cron
Copyright © BookTalk.org 2002-2011. All rights reserved.
Website developed by MidnightCoder.ca
Display Pagerank