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Caution! Irreparable Harm possible from two Words 
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Post Caution! Irreparable Harm possible from two Words
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Federal Judge Prohibits Prayer at Texas Graduation Ceremony

A federal judge has ordered a Texas school district to prohibit public prayer at a high school graduation ceremony.

Chief U.S. District Judge Fred Biery’s order against the Medina Valley Independent School District also forbids students from using specific religious words including “prayer” and “amen.”

The ruling was in response to a lawsuit filed by Christa and Danny Schultz. Their son is among those scheduled to participate in Saturday’s graduation ceremony. The judge declared that the Schultz family and their son would “suffer irreparable harm” if anyone prayed at the ceremony.

Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott said the school district is in the process of appealing the ruling, and his office has agreed to file a brief in their support.

“Part of this goes to the very heart of the unraveling of moral values in this country,” Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott told Fox News Radio, saying the judge wanted to turn school administrators into “speech police.”

“I’ve never seen such a restriction on speech issued by a court or the government,” Abbott told Fox News Radio. “It seems like a trampling of the First Amendment rather than protecting the First Amendment.”

Judge Biery’s ruling banned students and other speakers from using religious language in their speeches. Among the banned words or phrases are: “join in prayer,” “bow their heads,” “amen,” and “prayer.”

He also ordered the school district to remove the terms “invocation” and “benediction” from the graduation program.

“These terms shall be replaced with ‘opening remarks’ and ‘closing remarks,'” the judge’s order stated. His ruling also prohibits anyone from saying, “in [a deity’s name] we pray.”

Should a student violate the order, school district officials could find themselves in legal trouble. Judge Biery ordered that his ruling be “enforced by incarceration or other sanctions for contempt of Court if not obeyed by District official (sic) and their agents.”

The Texas attorney general called the ruling unconstitutional and a blatant attack from those who do not believe in God -- “attempts by atheists and agnostics to use courts to eliminate from the public landscape any and all references to God whatsoever.”

“This is the challenge we are dealing with here,” he said. “(It’s) an ongoing attempt to purge God from the public setting while at the same time demanding from the courts an increased yielding to all things atheist and agnostic.”

Ayesa Khan, an attorney representing the student and his parents, told KABB-TV she was delighted in the judge’s decision.

“It caused him a great deal of anxiety,” she said, referring to her teenage client. “He has gone to meet with the principal to try and talk in a civilized way about long-standing problems, and the school district has continued to thumb its nose.”

The judge did grant students permission to make the sign of the cross, wear religious garb or kneel to face Mecca. But that’s not good enough for some students at the high school.

“It’s just a big surprise that one kid can come in and change what’s been a tradition since Medina Valley started,” student Abigail Russell told KABB-TV.

Fellow student Alicia Jade Geurin agreed.

“At graduation, I would love to be able to speak from my heart,” she told the TV station. “But in this situation I feel my freedom of speech and my First Amendment is being infringed upon if I can’t say what I feel.”

But the Rev. Barry Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, hailed the judge’s decision.

“This is a high school graduation,” he told Fox News Radio. “It is not a church service.”
Lynn was critical of the attorney general’s allegation that the ruling was an attempt to purge Christianity from the public square.

“Any attorney general worth his salt would know that’s the issue and that this is not about promoting atheism,” he said. “That’s ludicrous.”


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/02/pr ... z1OAKEqgbM


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“I think one of [James Hoffmeier’s] most important points is that we have unrealistic expectations for what archaeology can offer us as far as ‘proving’ Exodus: ‘After all, what evidence, short of an inscription in a Proto-Canaanite script stating “bricks made by Hebrew slaves” would be considered proof that the Israelites were in Egypt. Archaeology’s ability … is quite limited.’” Jeff Lambert, Editorial Associate, Biblical Archaeological Review. via email January 26, 2010 8:20:58 AM. [email receipiant redacted for privacy reasons. See Thread-The Bible's Buried Secrets for full text.]


Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:03 pm
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Post Re: Caution! Irreparable Harm possible from two Words
It should be changed from "under God" to "alongside Thetans". Then I would have no problem with it, because L Ron Hubbard writes enjoyable fiction. What does it matter what fictional entity people mention with reverence? It's silly to think it would cause irreparable harm, but if it were a ceremony I took seriously, I'd tell them to shove it if they wanted to mention fictional entities. Leave the nonsense for the middle east.

edit - and hollywood.



Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:19 pm
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Post Re: Caution! Irreparable Harm possible from two Words
:dito: Interbane! Take these fictional deities out of the picture and we have a so much better world.



Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:48 am
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Post Re: Caution! Irreparable Harm possible from two Words
Azrael wrote:
:dito: Interbane! Take these fictional deities out of the picture and we have a so much better world.


Do you support the judge's decision?


_________________
“I think one of [James Hoffmeier’s] most important points is that we have unrealistic expectations for what archaeology can offer us as far as ‘proving’ Exodus: ‘After all, what evidence, short of an inscription in a Proto-Canaanite script stating “bricks made by Hebrew slaves” would be considered proof that the Israelites were in Egypt. Archaeology’s ability … is quite limited.’” Jeff Lambert, Editorial Associate, Biblical Archaeological Review. via email January 26, 2010 8:20:58 AM. [email receipiant redacted for privacy reasons. See Thread-The Bible's Buried Secrets for full text.]


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Post Re: Caution! Irreparable Harm possible from two Words
Interbane wrote:
It should be changed from "under God" to "alongside Thetans". Then I would have no problem with it, because L Ron Hubbard writes enjoyable fiction. What does it matter what fictional entity people mention with reverence? It's silly to think it would cause irreparable harm, but if it were a ceremony I took seriously, I'd tell them to shove it if they wanted to mention fictional entities. Leave the nonsense for the middle east.

edit - and hollywood.


Do you support the judge's ruling?


_________________
“I think one of [James Hoffmeier’s] most important points is that we have unrealistic expectations for what archaeology can offer us as far as ‘proving’ Exodus: ‘After all, what evidence, short of an inscription in a Proto-Canaanite script stating “bricks made by Hebrew slaves” would be considered proof that the Israelites were in Egypt. Archaeology’s ability … is quite limited.’” Jeff Lambert, Editorial Associate, Biblical Archaeological Review. via email January 26, 2010 8:20:58 AM. [email receipiant redacted for privacy reasons. See Thread-The Bible's Buried Secrets for full text.]


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Post Re: Caution! Irreparable Harm possible from two Words
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Do you support the judge's ruling?


Yes, delusion has no place at an educational setting, though I don't see the inclusion doing irreparable harm.



Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:21 am
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Post Re: Caution! Irreparable Harm possible from two Words
I think it's fine for students to use these words if that's what their parents want them to believe. I don't think it's correct to have a state appointed official using any religious invocations or witch craft during a school ceremony or while on the job - thereby influencing young impressionable minds. There should always be a separation of church and state - not of morals and ethics. If I had a child I wouldn't want them exposed to garbage from someone they are taught to respect and learn from.

It's funny how religious people get worked up about this when they're the first to trample on other people's rights. Can't drink on Sunday, can't teach evolution, can't research stem cells, can't eat pork, can't have an abortion, can't can't can't can't..... cry baby hypocrites. We need to protect ourselves from these people because they will push and push. That's fine. I'll support those who push back.



The following user would like to thank President Camacho for this post:
Azrael, Frank 013
Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:32 am
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Post Re: Caution! Irreparable Harm possible from two Words
Interbane wrote:
Quote:
Do you support the judge's ruling?


Yes, delusion has no place at an educational setting, though I don't see the inclusion doing irreparable harm.


So it is acceptable that the student's First Ammendment right of Free Speech are being tampled on?


_________________
“I think one of [James Hoffmeier’s] most important points is that we have unrealistic expectations for what archaeology can offer us as far as ‘proving’ Exodus: ‘After all, what evidence, short of an inscription in a Proto-Canaanite script stating “bricks made by Hebrew slaves” would be considered proof that the Israelites were in Egypt. Archaeology’s ability … is quite limited.’” Jeff Lambert, Editorial Associate, Biblical Archaeological Review. via email January 26, 2010 8:20:58 AM. [email receipiant redacted for privacy reasons. See Thread-The Bible's Buried Secrets for full text.]


Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:53 pm
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Post Re: Caution! Irreparable Harm possible from two Words
President Camacho wrote:
I think it's fine for students to use these words if that's what their parents want them to believe. I don't think it's correct to have a state appointed official using any religious invocations or witch craft during a school ceremony or while on the job - thereby influencing young impressionable minds. There should always be a separation of church and state - not of morals and ethics. If I had a child I wouldn't want them exposed to garbage from someone they are taught to respect and learn from.

It's funny how religious people get worked up about this when they're the first to trample on other people's rights. Can't drink on Sunday, can't teach evolution, can't research stem cells, can't eat pork, can't have an abortion, can't can't can't can't..... cry baby hypocrites. We need to protect ourselves from these people because they will push and push. That's fine. I'll support those who push back.


Do you support the judge's decision?


_________________
“I think one of [James Hoffmeier’s] most important points is that we have unrealistic expectations for what archaeology can offer us as far as ‘proving’ Exodus: ‘After all, what evidence, short of an inscription in a Proto-Canaanite script stating “bricks made by Hebrew slaves” would be considered proof that the Israelites were in Egypt. Archaeology’s ability … is quite limited.’” Jeff Lambert, Editorial Associate, Biblical Archaeological Review. via email January 26, 2010 8:20:58 AM. [email receipiant redacted for privacy reasons. See Thread-The Bible's Buried Secrets for full text.]


Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:55 pm
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Post Re: Caution! Irreparable Harm possible from two Words
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So it is acceptable that the student's First Ammendment right of Free Speech are being tampled on?


As acceptable as the other instances where free speech is legally suppressed.



Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:05 pm
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Post Re: Caution! Irreparable Harm possible from two Words
Interbane wrote:
Quote:
So it is acceptable that the student's First Ammendment right of Free Speech are being tampled on?


As acceptable as the other instances where free speech is legally suppressed.


Free speech is OK as long as it does not apply to what they say.....stupid ancient religion still has not caught up with the times.



Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:11 pm
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Post Re: Caution! Irreparable Harm possible from two Words
Interbane wrote:
Quote:
So it is acceptable that the student's First Ammendment right of Free Speech are being tampled on?


As acceptable as the other instances where free speech is legally suppressed.


The exceptions I am aware of are:
Where the speech might endanger the public safety (eg inciting a panic)

In the above case it is hard to see any exception which the judge can invoke. Maybe you see it. Please list the exception(s) you are referring to?


_________________
“I think one of [James Hoffmeier’s] most important points is that we have unrealistic expectations for what archaeology can offer us as far as ‘proving’ Exodus: ‘After all, what evidence, short of an inscription in a Proto-Canaanite script stating “bricks made by Hebrew slaves” would be considered proof that the Israelites were in Egypt. Archaeology’s ability … is quite limited.’” Jeff Lambert, Editorial Associate, Biblical Archaeological Review. via email January 26, 2010 8:20:58 AM. [email receipiant redacted for privacy reasons. See Thread-The Bible's Buried Secrets for full text.]


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Post Re: Caution! Irreparable Harm possible from two Words
Azrael wrote:
Interbane wrote:
Quote:
So it is acceptable that the student's First Ammendment right of Free Speech are being tampled on?


As acceptable as the other instances where free speech is legally suppressed.


Free speech is OK as long as it does not apply to what they say.....stupid ancient religion still has not caught up with the times.


Do you come with a translator?


_________________
“I think one of [James Hoffmeier’s] most important points is that we have unrealistic expectations for what archaeology can offer us as far as ‘proving’ Exodus: ‘After all, what evidence, short of an inscription in a Proto-Canaanite script stating “bricks made by Hebrew slaves” would be considered proof that the Israelites were in Egypt. Archaeology’s ability … is quite limited.’” Jeff Lambert, Editorial Associate, Biblical Archaeological Review. via email January 26, 2010 8:20:58 AM. [email receipiant redacted for privacy reasons. See Thread-The Bible's Buried Secrets for full text.]


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Post Re: Caution! Irreparable Harm possible from two Words
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In the above case it is hard to see any exception which the judge can invoke. Maybe you see it. Please list the exception(s) you are referring to?


Hate speech. Exclusionary belief systems have no place in public events.



Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:24 pm
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Post Re: Caution! Irreparable Harm possible from two Words
Interbane wrote:
Quote:
In the above case it is hard to see any exception which the judge can invoke. Maybe you see it. Please list the exception(s) you are referring to?


Hate speech. Exclusionary belief systems have no place in public events.


Hate speech, I agree but the Supreme Court doesn't. Our constitution's Bill of Rights is designed to protect precisely the kind of speech which others will not like.
Exclusionary belief systems. That is unefforceable and unconstitutional.


_________________
“I think one of [James Hoffmeier’s] most important points is that we have unrealistic expectations for what archaeology can offer us as far as ‘proving’ Exodus: ‘After all, what evidence, short of an inscription in a Proto-Canaanite script stating “bricks made by Hebrew slaves” would be considered proof that the Israelites were in Egypt. Archaeology’s ability … is quite limited.’” Jeff Lambert, Editorial Associate, Biblical Archaeological Review. via email January 26, 2010 8:20:58 AM. [email receipiant redacted for privacy reasons. See Thread-The Bible's Buried Secrets for full text.]


Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:27 pm
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Moby Dick: or, the Whale by Herman MelvilleA Visit from the Goon Squad by Jennifer EganLost Memory of Skin: A Novel by Russell BanksThe Structure of Scientific Revolutions by Thomas S. KuhnHobbes: Leviathan by Thomas HobbesThe House of the Spirits - by Isabel AllendeArguably: Essays by Christopher HitchensThe Falls: A Novel (P.S.) by Joyce Carol OatesChrist in Egypt by D.M. MurdockThe Glass Bead Game: A Novel by Hermann HesseA Devil's Chaplain by Richard DawkinsThe Hero with a Thousand Faces by Joseph CampbellThe Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor DostoyevskyThe Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark TwainThe Moral Landscape by Sam HarrisThe Decameron by Giovanni BoccaccioThe Road by Cormac McCarthyThe Grand Design by Stephen HawkingThe Evolution of God by Robert WrightThe Tin Drum by Gunter GrassGood Omens by Neil GaimanPredictably Irrational by Dan ArielyThe Wind-Up Bird Chronicle: A Novel by Haruki MurakamiALONE: Orphaned on the Ocean by Richard Logan & Tere Duperrault FassbenderDon Quixote by Miguel De CervantesMusicophilia by Oliver SacksDiary of a Madman and Other Stories by Nikolai GogolThe Passion of the Western Mind by Richard TarnasThe Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula K. Le GuinThe Genius of the Beast by Howard BloomAlice's Adventures in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll Empire of Illusion by Chris HedgesThe Sound and the Fury by William Faulkner The Extended Phenotype by Richard DawkinsSmoke and Mirrors by Neil GaimanThe Selfish Gene by Richard DawkinsWhen Good Thinking Goes Bad by Todd C. RinioloHouse of Leaves by Mark Z. DanielewskiAmerican Gods: A Novel by Neil GaimanPrimates and Philosophers by Frans de WaalThe Enormous Room by E.E. CummingsThe Picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar WildeGod Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything by Christopher HitchensThe Name of the Rose by Umberto Eco Dreams From My Father by Barack Obama Paradise Lost by John Milton Bad Money by Kevin PhillipsThe Secret Garden by Frances Hodgson BurnettGodless: How an Evangelical Preacher Became One of America's Leading Atheists by Dan BarkerThe Things They Carried by Tim O'BrienThe Limits of Power by Andrew BacevichLolita by Vladimir NabokovOrlando by Virginia Woolf On Being Certain by Robert A. Burton50 reasons people give for believing in a god by Guy P. HarrisonWalden: Or, Life in the Woods by Henry David ThoreauExile and the Kingdom by Albert CamusOur Inner Ape by Frans de WaalYour Inner Fish by Neil ShubinNo Country for Old Men by Cormac McCarthyThe Age of American Unreason by Susan JacobyTen Theories of Human Nature by Leslie Stevenson & David HabermanHeart of Darkness by Joseph ConradThe Stuff of Thought by Stephen PinkerA Thousand Splendid Suns by Khaled HosseiniThe Lucifer Effect by Philip ZimbardoResponsibility and Judgment by Hannah ArendtInterventions by Noam ChomskyGodless in America by George A. RickerReligious Expression and the American Constitution by Franklyn S. HaimanDeep Economy by Phil McKibbenThe God Delusion by Richard DawkinsThe Third Chimpanzee by Jared DiamondThe Woman in the Dunes by Abe KoboEvolution vs. Creationism by Eugenie C. ScottThe Omnivore's Dilemma by Michael PollanI, Claudius by Robert GravesBreaking The Spell by Daniel C. DennettA Peace to End All Peace by David FromkinThe Time Traveler's Wife by Audrey NiffeneggerThe End of Faith by Sam HarrisEnder's Game by Orson Scott CardThe Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time by Mark HaddonValue and Virtue in a Godless Universe by Erik J. WielenbergThe March by E. L DoctorowThe Ethical Brain by Michael GazzanigaFreethinkers: A History of American Secularism by Susan JacobyCollapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed by Jared DiamondThe Battle for God by Karen ArmstrongThe Future of Life by Edward O. WilsonWhat is Good? by A. C. GraylingCivilization and Its Enemies by Lee HarrisPale Blue Dot by Carl SaganHow We Believe: Science, Skepticism, and the Search for God by Michael ShermerLooking for Spinoza by Antonio DamasioLies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them by Al FrankenThe Red Queen by Matt RidleyThe Blank Slate by Stephen PinkerUnweaving the Rainbow by Richard DawkinsAtheism: A Reader edited by S.T. JoshiGlobal Brain by Howard BloomThe Lucifer Principle by Howard BloomGuns, Germs and Steel by Jared DiamondThe Demon-Haunted World by Carl SaganBury My Heart at Wounded Knee by Dee BrownFuture Shock by Alvin Toffler

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