Can Jane Fonda be forgiven?

Ken Hemingway · Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:43 am Post subject: Re: Can Jane Fonda be forgiven?

There are certainly times when treason is the only honourable course of action. I call to witness the White Rose, and the Generals' plot. Americans among us might want to add that gang of rabble rousers who used to meet in Philadelphia, though I, of course, as a loyal citizen of the crown, cannot view their actions as less than wholly reprehensible.

I say this not because I think that Miss Fonda was right in what she did. I do not think that. But I do think it was brave - probably to the point of foolhardiness, as she has since recognized.

Perhaps it would be useful to look for examples closer to home? How many of us think that the current US government is justified in holding people in Guantanamo, indefinitely, without trial, and without granting them status as prisoners of war?

But, how many of us have spoken out loudly against this practice? Loudly enough to be heard, at least, in Washington?

pctacitus · Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:47 pm Post subject: Re: Fonda

I am sick of the remarks to the effect of "you weren't there, so you can't know" followed by "your generation is going through the same thing." If I am going through the same thing, shouldn't I be able to understand?

…[T]o ignore the classics is ultimately to weaken the very foundations of our society. - James Atlas, Book Wars: What it Takes to be Educated in America

Tessa3 · Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:33 am Post subject: Re: Fonda

Yes! You absolutely should, and I am sure you will. But in doing so, I hope will not derive your analysis from a one-sided account of history that is nothing more than conservative propaganda and fails to take into account some of the achievements of the left in the 1960s in ending the war and in fighting for civil rights.

marti1900 · Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 12:52 pm Post subject: Re: Fonda

Tactitus, if it is me you are talking to, I didn't mean to offend you, or anyone in particular here. My babblings were a general rant aimed more at the media all of whom are about 12 years old, which is dragging this stuff up for no real purpose than to create a stir.

You are right, we can understand the past even if we didn't live at that time, but I hope you can concede the point that we can know the facts about a past era without maybe understanding the 'feel' of that time.

Still friends? Don't be mad at me. I'm a fragile old lady, all that marajuana notwithstanding.

Marti in Mexico

pctacitus · Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:03 pm Post subject: Re: Fonda

Marti,

I did not take your remarks personally. There is nothing for me to forgive.

When I look at the newsmedia, youth isn't something that strikes me as an apparent quality. They are young in mind, but not in body.

Dan Rather who retired recently and his replacement Bob Shieffer at CBS are at least in their 60s, Peter Jennings, is if I remember correctly, in his sixties as well, Brokaw retired last year at what age? and his replacement Brian Williams is youthful by media standards at 45 last year with over 20 years experience, Jim Lehrer at PBS is over 70, their moderator of Washington Week is almost fifty.

If we switch to Cable, at Fox, the youngest looking among them, Sean Hannity is 43 and will turn 44 this year, at MSNBC Chris Matthews is turning 60 this year. At CNN, Wolf Blitzer was born in 1948.

I remember what Thomas Ricks, a reporter noted about Somalia in 1992, that a 22 year old Marine Corporal could make decisions that would potentially alter national policy, when in his office in D.C. they would not let 22 year olds run the copy machine without supervision.

…[T]o ignore the classics is ultimately to weaken the very foundations of our society. - James Atlas, Book Wars: What it Takes to be Educated in America

Edited by: pctacitus at: 4/7/05 3:07 pm

Tessa3 · Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:14 pm Post subject: Re: Fonda

It had not occurred to me until I discussed this topic with Vietnam vets outside this forum that whether or not Jane Fonda is in need of forgiveness, there are veterans who are in need of the ability to forgive, themselves and others, to overcome the effects of the trauma they suffered. The attached article discusses this problem. www.ncptsd.va.gov/publica...alois.html

I know when my brother got off the plane returning from Vietnam, he was spat on. He will never forget it.

Tessa3 · Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 11:08 am Post subject: Re: Fonda

Marti,

After reading your post, I tried several times during the course of discussions with friends to tell them that they should tread lightly because I am old and fragile. They howled with laughter. Since it is indisputable that I’m old as dirt, it must be the fragile part that they are having trouble getting around. I am working on my delivery.

marti1900 · Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2005 6:41 am Post subject: Re: Fonda

Yeah, I know what you mean, Tessa. You have to work on the pathetic part...it's hard to pull off. I don't think Tactitus bought it, either.

Marti in Mexico

pctacitus · Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: Fonda

Playing the fragile old lady only works if you play it the overwhelming majority of the time, which you have not.

…[T]o ignore the classics is ultimately to weaken the very foundations of our society. - James Atlas, Book Wars: What it Takes to be Educated in America


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