Book Archives: Yea or Nay?

Chris OConnor · Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:12 pm Post subject: Book Archives: Yea or Nay?

Book Archives: Yea or Nay?

This is another change I am proposing. Think about all of these proposed changes before answering too quickly. we're trying to open BookTalk up to more and more people so that we grow and become a more active and thriving community.

In my opinion the archives are hurting us. We currently have 17 books in the archives. Due to them being hidden and out of site, very few visitors will ever add a comment to them. Even the term "Archives" makes you think of cobwebs and stale storage. Why would someone pour their heart out into a stale old forum that is hidden away in storage?

The reason why we have placed books in the archives is because we wanted the forums page to be shorter. Is this worth the trade off? Basically, all of the writing in those forums is essentially lost forever.

There are ways for me to make those forums only 1 line tall each. I can get rid of the line that tells you who the mods are, and then also wipe out the line that tells you "Book #20: July, Aug, Sept 2005 (Discussion Leader ~ misterpessimistic)"

I could simply add to the beginning of the forum name the book # as follows.

Current Method:

Freethinkers: A History of American Secularism - by Susan Jacoby
Moderators: Chris OConnor misterpessimistic
Book #20: July, Aug, Sept 2005 (Discussion Leader ~ misterpessimistic)

See how this is 3 lines tall?

New Method (for all books other than our current books)

#20: Freethinkers: A History of American Secularism - by Susan Jacoby

This would be 1-line tall. I could make the "#20" a different color than the text too. But this probably isn't even needed.

with this new method we would be adding 17 new forums to the main page, since we have 17 forums in the Archives. But visitors would then have the opportunity to contribute to all the past discussions and wouldn't feel like they are wasting their time.

If you arrived at BookTalk after running a search for "Richard Dawkins," thiking you would like to post some comments in that forum, but then founf it hidden away in the archives, what would you do? Would you sit there for 30 minutes composing a review? Of course not.

We we're missing out on the potential for ongoing discuissions on all past books.

Yes, this would require adding 17 new forums. This is the negative. But think about it this way...

1. We add 17 forums which means adding 17 new lines of height to our main forums page.

2. But we reduce the height of all past book forums by several lines. Each forum is 1-line in height.

Explain your answer please.

Results (total votes = 5):


Yes	4 / 80.0%

No	1 / 20.0%

pctacitus · Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:18 pm Post subject: Re: Book Archives: Yea or Nay?

Better to attempt to revive them, than to let them just sit there taking up space.

“…the great events in life come from the books, rather than the people, one comes across.” - Robert D. Kaplan, Mediterranean Winter: the Pleasures of History and Landscape in Tunisia, Sicily, Dalmatia, and Greece

Chris OConnor · Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:43 pm Post subject: Re: Book Archives: Yea or Nay?

This poll was created in a confuing fashion.

I ask yea or nay in the subject line. I am asking about getting rid of the archives and bringing all book discussions back to the surface. Just elaborate on your vote and we'll understand.

GOD defiles Reason · Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 9:06 pm Post subject: Re: Book Archives: Yea or Nay?

Yea. It's worth experimenting. If it doesn't generate new dialogue, you can always change it back.

Chris OConnor · Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 10:03 pm Post subject: Re: Book Archives: Yea or Nay?

That's what I was thinking too. If we don't see some additional discussion after a few months, perhaps a quarter, we stick them all back in the Archives.

But I'm excited to have them out myself. I'd like to read some of our past selections again and make some posts. We've had some great book discussions, and it seems a shame to hide them away. Only time will tell if this little effort is appreciated by anyone other than myself.

Let me show you what I'm doing to each book forum now. I'm starting with the oldest forums first, and working from there. You'll notice that each forum has a table with information at the top. All you have to do is click on the forum name and you'll see what I'm talking about. So far I have only done "Future Shock," and a few others. But over the next few hours I'll have all past book discussion forums updated.

GOD defiles Reason · Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:24 am Post subject: Re: Book Archives: Yea or Nay?

I like those tables at the top.

I do want to point out that my 'yea' vote is not without reservation. I do have arguments against it, but not enough to not try it. I want to see if it helps and it's worth experimenting on.

My arguments against it would simply be: Is it too much? Does it make the Forums page overwhelming with so many links? to so many different books? Does having 20 or more ongoing book discussions make us a less focused community? Does that even matter? (Thats how unsure I am about my arguments - they're in the form of questions, not statements.)

Chris OConnor · Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:33 am Post subject: Re: Book Archives: Yea or Nay?

Today has been a slow day on our boards. I wish we had more feedback on this issue.

GOD defiles Reason · Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:48 am Post subject: Re: Book Archives: Yea or Nay?

Maybe the Holloween weekend has something to do with it.

pctacitus · Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:15 am Post subject: Re: Book Archives: Yea or Nay?

I wouldn't mind having some of the older discussions further down the page. so that some of the other sections aren't hidden too far down.

“…the great events in life come from the books, rather than the people, one comes across.” - Robert D. Kaplan, Mediterranean Winter: the Pleasures of History and Landscape in Tunisia, Sicily, Dalmatia, and Greece

marti1900 · Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 10:00 am Post subject: I LIKE It

As I said on the other thread, I think it is a wonderful idea to make those archived threads visible again. Makes us look like a <i>book discussion</i> site, not just a place where folks read one book a quarter and spend the rest of the time posting on threads that have nothing to do with books, ie the philos/religion, science/techol, roundtable, threads.

Remember the old MTV slogan? Too much is never enough! That's MY motto when it comes to books. Why do you think a library or a bookstore is soooo attractive/addictive? Because they have LOTS and LOTS of books! And is everyone in those places standing clumped around ONE section? No, they are spread out all over the place, each in his/her interest area.

Keep up the excellent work!

Marti in Mexico

Mr. Pessimistic · Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 10:24 am Post subject: Re: Book Archives: Yea or Nay?

Yes...

I never even thought of the older discussions because they were hidden...I knew they were there...I just never really thought about them.

Good idea Chris.

Mr. P.

The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.

The pain in hell has two sides. The kind you can touch with your hand; the kind you can feel in your heart...Scorsese's "Mean Streets"

I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper

MadArchitect · Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:42 pm Post subject: Re: Book Archives: Yea or Nay?

Chris OConnor: I don't know how to move discussions off ezboard and don't see any benefit to doing so.

So long as you're not concerned with retaining the reply feature, the easiest way to do it would be to cut and paste the source code for a thread into an HTML template. It's tedious work, but easy, and you could set aside a particular time of the month or quarter to do it. Honestly, you don't even have to do it yourself -- the source code is available to everyone who views BookTalk.

The benefit to doing so is that it'll save you the trouble of having to do it in the future. Forums can only hold so many threads and each message board is only allowed so many forums. It may be a long time off, but given that BookTalk has a long lifespan, you're bound to hit that ceiling eventually. It's the getting your tires changed analogy again, but in this case, once you actually have to move the threads in order to keep them, your car could be in the shop for weeks.

Here's a question: do you plan to only archive book discussions, or do you want to archive the discussions that take place in the topic forums as well. Your longest thread at the moment is in the "Religion, Philosophy and the Arts" forum. If that thread goes inactive long enough, and enough new threads are made in the meantime, it could get clipped automatically by EzBoard. The pace isn't quick enough that that's a concern at the moment, but when the membership and activity increase, it can quickly become a problem. And really, all it takes to push an armload of threads off the end of a page is one good spam attack.


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