Biblical parks may get tax deal - WTF?!?!?

Chris OConnor

So far, just one attraction in Orlando would benefit from a Senate bill exempting it from local property taxes.

By JENNIFER LIBERTO, Times Staff Writer
Published April 5, 2006

TALLAHASSEE - A biblical theme park in Orlando where guests pay $30 admission to munch on "Goliath" burgers and explore reproductions of 2000-year-old tombs and temples could get a property tax exemption written into state law.

A Senate committee easily passed a bill that would grant theme parks "used to exhibit, illustrate, and interpret biblical manuscripts ... " an exemption from local property taxes, like churches, even though the parks charge money.

The legislation is designed to resolve a tax dispute between Holy Land Experience and the Orange County property appraiser, but legislative staffers say the exemption could encourage the development of other parks to take advantage of the tax break.

The 15-acre Orlando park recently won its challenge against Orange County, which has appealed the case. The nonprofit, which would owe about $300,000 in property taxes each year, argued that the park helps finance its Christian ministry.

But the property appraiser argues the nonprofit should pay taxes on the money-producing park, just like Disney World or Universal Orlando, with its pricey tickets and $5 parking fees.

Calls to Holy Land Experience were not returned.

The bill's sponsor, Sen. Daniel Webster, R-Winter Garden, says the bill really only applies to Holy Land Experience and said it would be difficult for another park to meet the "stiffly-worded" criteria.

Yet, when a Pensacola park dedicated to creationism learned of the Webster bill Tuesday it promptly sent an emissary to Webster's office to find out how it could qualify for the same tax break.

Dinosaur Adventure Land, devoted to demonstrating that the Bible proves dinosaurs and humans coexisted, displays pages from ancient Bibles and "biblical accounts of dinosaurs," said Creation Science Evangelism founder Kent Hovind, who also goes by "Dr. Dino."

Dinosaur Adventure Land is a nonprofit but is organized under a different section of the IRS code than Holy Land Experience. A director with Creation Science Evangelism said the group won't change its IRS designation, but will see about getting the Webster bill tweaked to include it too.

So far, there doesn't appear to be any organized opposition to the bill, which sailed through a Senate committee Tuesday with no debate. The bill has a House companion, which has yet to be heard in a committee.

Calls to theme park competitors Disney World and Busch Gardens befuddled spokesmen who said they hadn't heard of the bill.

However, Orange County Property Appraiser Bill Donegan said the bill smacks of tax abuse and wondered if it was discriminatory.

"There are churches out there that have bookstores and sell some Bibles and that's not what this is about, this is a theme park that charges $30 admission," said Donegan, who had been to the park. "This bill is taking a special interest and granting it an exemption in the state of Florida."

Two legal scholars said the bill probably could pass constitutional muster, despite its appearance of giving Legislative preference to the Bible and Christianity, as opposed to other religions.

"I'd give it a better than 50 percent chance (of surviving a challenge), but in the legal climate we're in, I wouldn't give it much more than that," said constitutional law professor Thomas C. Marks Jr. of Stetson University College of Law, who noted a plethora of recent lawsuits challenging the intermingling of church and state issues.

Florida's Constitution gives the Legislature broad authority to make all sorts of tax exemptions for "educational, literary, scientific, religious or charitable purposes."

So lawmakers could also carve out specific property tax exemptions for theme parks that display the Torah, the Vedas or the Koran.

And the director of Dinosaur World Adventure thinks they should.

"I think it should be a little more broad in scope and not even limit it to Christians," said Glen Stoll, director of ministries and property for Creation Science Evangelism. "That seems a little discriminatory."

Last week, when members of a tax revenue estimating conference took up Webster's bill, they discussed whether the legislation might encourage more biblical theme parks and drew up an analysis that estimated the law's "middle" impact could cost as much as $4.8-million a year.

After 10 minutes of discussion, they settled on saying the impact could not be determined, since they didn't know how many biblical theme parks exist now or how many might follow such a tax incentive.

::170

Mr. Pessimistic

This is why I am so against religion at all and give no quarter. The more we tolerate the idiots who believe in fairy tales, the more we allow for shit like this to happen.

We, as atheists and non-believers, need to stand behind our message and continue to point the 'what are you kidding me' finger at religion and say that it is NOT ok to tolerate fantasies that want to insinuate themselves into reality, let alone support them with our tax money. I do not see why ANY religious institution should get tax breaks...at least for the reason that they are religious in nature.

Mr. P.

The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.

Once you perceive the irrevocable truth, you can no longer justify the irrational denial. - Mr. P.

The pain in hell has two sides. The kind you can touch with your hand; the kind you can feel in your heart...Scorsese's "Mean Streets"

I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper

Chris OConnor

Well said, Nick. ::121

It turns my stomach to think that we're rewarding ignorance and fraud with tax breaks.

MadArchitect

Whether or not it's reasonable to give tax breaks for religious institutions in general (they do function as a kind of non-profit charity in most cases), extending that tax break to a for-profit theme park is a gross distortion of tax immunity. Let's hope somebody with some sense shoots this bill down.

Chris OConnor

My sentiments exactly, Mad. Personally, I disagree with tax-exempt status for any and all religious organizations, but I especially see a problem with assigning this status to a for-profit money-making theme park.

Niall001 · Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:06 pm Post subject: ----

Quote:
We, as atheists and non-believers, need to stand behind our message and continue to point the 'what are you kidding me' finger at religion and say that it is NOT ok to tolerate fantasies that want to insinuate themselves into reality, let alone support them with our tax money

Umm, you do realise that every legal system is based on fantasy right? And that you, as an atheist are actually a minority in your society where your views are actually viewed as fantasy by the vast majority of people. How does it make you feel when people talk about not tolerating your belief system.

But honestly, I can't see any possible justification for this kind of shit. I mean, there might be an excuse if the profits were being used for charitable purposes, but otherwise, it just seems really idiotic.

Mr. Pessimistic · Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 8:46 pm Post subject: Re: ----

Quote:
Umm, you do realise that every legal system is based on fantasy right? And that you, as an atheist are actually a minority in your society where your views are actually viewed as fantasy by the vast majority of people. How does it make you feel when people talk about not tolerating your belief system.

Try all you want to equate belief in a make believe god and any reality based existence. It just shows that your only argument is to reduce others arguments to the inanity of your beliefs.

I will take the minority...some of the greatest theories and discoveries were brought about by the minority view or thought. Sanity is not statistical.

Mr. P.

The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.

Once you perceive the irrevocable truth, you can no longer justify the irrational denial. - Mr. P.

The pain in hell has two sides. The kind you can touch with your hand; the kind you can feel in your heart...Scorsese's "Mean Streets"

I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper

Niall001 · Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 5:31 am Post subject: Re: ----

Actually, sanity is statistical. It is a legal term, used to describe states of mind that conform to common perceptions of what is correct state of mind.

Which is why our conceptions of what is "sane" change. Don't believe me, then look at homosexuality.

And while some of the "greatest" theories and discoveries may well have been minority beliefs, so were a lot of the idiotic ones that have long since been lost (thankfully).

Quote:
Try all you want to equate belief in a make believe god and any reality based existence. It just shows that your only argument is to reduce others arguments to the inanity of your beliefs.

Actually, I wasn't referring to reality based existence, but morality, which is absolute fantasy. Purge conceptions of morality from a legal system and see what you're left with.

And if other arguments can be reduced to the "inanity" of my beliefs, doesn't that make them inane?

Personally I think that this is the type of thinking that we should all aspire to

Quote:
I picked Hamilton’s paper out of my briefcase somewhere north of New Haven and riffled through it impatiently. I was anxious to get the gist of the argument and move on to something else, something more familiar and congenial. The prose was convoluted and the full-dress mathematical treatment difficult, but I understood his main point about haplodiploidy and colonial life quickly enough. My first response was negative. Impossible, I thought; this can’t be right. Too simple. He must not know much about social insects. But the idea kept gnawing away at me early that afternoon, as I changed over to the Silver Meteor in New York’s Pennsylvania Station. As we departed southward across the New Jersey marshes, I went through the article again, more carefully this time, looking for the fatal flaw I believed must be there. At intervals I closed my eyes and tried to conceive of alternative, more convincing explanations of the prevalence of hymenopteran social life and the all-female worker force. Surely I knew enough to come up with something. I had done this kind of critique before and succeeded. But nothing presented itself now. By dinnertime, as the train rumbled on into Virginia, I was growing frustrated and angry. Hamilton, whoever he was, could not have cut the Gordian knot. Anyway, there was no Gordian knot in the first place, was there? I had thought there was probably just a lot of accidental evolution and wonderful natural history. And because I modestly thought of myself as the world authority on social insects, I also thought it unlikely that anyone else could explain their origin, certainly not in one clean stroke. The next morning, as we rolled on past Waycross and Jacksonville, I thrashed about some more. By the time we reached Miami in the early afternoon, I gave up. I was a convert, and put myself in Hamilton’s hands. I had undergone what historians of science call a paradigm shift.

--- E.O. Wilson

Full of Porn*

http://plainofpillars.blogspot.com

Mr. Pessimistic · Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:25 pm Post subject: Re: ----

Quote:
Which is why our conceptions of what is "sane" change. Don't believe me, then look at homosexuality.

Sad. I never thought homosexuality was insane....even while growing up as a Catholic....THIS is why I turned away from the godforsaken religion!

Quote:
And while some of the "greatest" theories and discoveries may well have been minority beliefs, so were a lot of the idiotic ones that have long since been lost (thankfully).

Uh-huh...what!? There is one idiotic belief still haunting us...and the only reason is because of the credulous masses.

Quote:
And if other arguments can be reduced to the "inanity" of my beliefs, doesn't that make them inane?

No, it just circles back onto you. I did not say you succeeded in anyway in reducing the concepts, just that you have to try to find common ground.

Quote:
Personally I think that this is the type of thinking that we should all aspire to....

I agree...but I do not see how this applies to religion. There is no power in it to shift my paradigm! It is an empty vessel.

Mr. P.

::72

The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.

Once you perceive the irrevocable truth, you can no longer justify the irrational denial. - Mr. P.

The pain in hell has two sides. The kind you can touch with your hand; the kind you can feel in your heart...Scorsese's "Mean Streets"

I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper

MadArchitect · Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 5:36 pm Post subject: Re: ----

E.O. Wilson writes: At intervals I closed my eyes and tried to conceive of alternative, more convincing explanations of the prevalence of hymenopteran social life and the all-female worker force.

Speaking of paradigm shifts, the term is from Thomas A. Kuhn's "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions", and in the sentence I quoted above, Wilson may have inadvertantly illustrated another one of Kuhn's principles, which is that scientists almost never abandon the paradigm before them unless there is a suitable alternative available.


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