Belief in God

Mr. Pessimistic · Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 6:39 pm Post subject: Re: Belief in God

hive queen:

I think yours is a truer love than that kind of love that relies on obligation to a superior, narcissistic being. Who would love a being that requires your love in order to be accepted?

Mr. P.

The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.

Dissident Heart · Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 11:12 pm Post subject: Re: Belief in God

Quote:
a truer love than that kind of love that relies on obligation to a superior, narcissistic being.

Im not sure where this plays into anything I've said...beyond a shared understanding between Mr. P and myself regarding an awe-inspiring mystery about life's collossal superiority...I've said nothing about a narcissistic being demanding love.

Love is a two way street between persons....each wanting, desiring, hungering for the other...this is what we usually mean by the word "Lovers".

I have no problem embracing a narrative that describes God as lover...as hungering, desiring, wanting my love in return.

You can choose a narrative that sees this as abusive narcissistic manipulation of the weak by the strong.

I don't. I embrace a love of God that is reciprocated in kind....this great collossal mystery of awesome power and wonder (which we both agree is beyond our understanding) loves me, and the world around and within me.

You can choose to say whatever you want about it.

Mr. Pessimistic · Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 9:02 am Post subject: Re: Belief in God

Quote:
Im not sure where this plays into anything I've said...beyond a shared understanding between Mr. P and myself regarding an awe-inspiring mystery about life's collossal superiority...I've said nothing about a narcissistic being demanding love.

I was simply replying to Hive Queen. Not commenting on our discussion. I was commenting on the idea amongst many, if not all, the religions that if you do not accept their god, you are damned.

Quote:
Love is a two way street between persons....each wanting, desiring, hungering for the other...this is what we usually mean by the word "Lovers".

But love can also be one way. I can love without being loved and vice-versa.

Mr. P.

The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.

Dissident Heart · Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 11:01 am Post subject: Re: Belief in God

Quote:
the idea amongst many, if not all, the religions that if you do not accept their god, you are damned.

Would you be willing to agree that if I reject your idea of reason, scientific process, logical analysis...that I will be guaranteed a fairly miserable life of consistent bad choices, ruptured projects, impossible quandries, and a general misery inflicted on myself and others...ultimately would I not be a danger to myself and others...and if I continued on this path of irrational, illogical, anti-scientific behavior wouldnt I eventually destroy my physical and emotional health, not to mention screw up the political, legal, medicinal, educational, ecological systems of wherever I may stumble?

Would you agree that by rejecting your way of life, I would be creating a type of hell....willfully choosing to spread hell wherever I went?

Mr. Pessimistic · Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 11:30 am Post subject: Re: Belief in God

Nope...I do not agree. There are many ways to make it through life. I do not deny this. It is the mixture of ideologies and rational thought that cause the personal hells some feel. Not being able to cope with others and such.

When strict ideology gets in the way of reason and pursuit of knowledge, though, it becomes a bad thing to all. It is the unwillingness to discuss and to grow from that discussion that is the danger.

Many who hold your beliefs would not waste a second in the conversation you and I have had...they would just shut me out. And vice-versa. I had this problem on another board I frequent...which is why I am here now.

Mr. P.

The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.

Dissident Heart · Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 1:55 pm Post subject: Re: Belief in God

Quote:
Many who hold your beliefs would not waste a second in the conversation you and I have had

As I see it, these folks don't hold my beliefs, nor I theirs...otherwise, I wouldn't be having this conversation either.

Mr. Pessimistic · Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2004 11:23 am Post subject: Re: Belief in God

Quote:
I guess I mean, if my son died... a light came down from heaven... a voice boomed out "let him live!"... and he got up, completely healed... I would absolutely believe in God. A miracle would be something that could not be explained by other causes.

I do not feel you are being specific enough Queen! :P

Mr. P.

The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.

Edited by: misterpessimistic at: 7/13/04 12:25 pm

RickU · Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2004 12:23 pm Post subject: Re: Belief in God

I understand where Hive is coming from...but I'm not sure there IS an event..even the one she described...that won't be possible someday...or perhaps is possible now, just not by our species...

Jeremy1952 · Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:50 pm Post subject: Re: Belief in God

My mind would immediately jump to "advanced alien civilization playing games" and/or, "the emotional impact has driven me mad".

My next thought would probably be suspicion. Did the agent so skilled at resurrection have something to do with the "death"? After all, it's the easiest way to pull such scams off.

If you make yourself really small, you can externalize virtually everything. Daniel Dennett, 1984

Mr. Pessimistic · Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2004 2:05 pm Post subject: Re: Belief in God

Do you think that Jesus was just a very skilled con-artist? Me and my friend discussed this once...it is very entertaining to consider.

Say he knew that by mixing two chemicals, you could turn water a reddish color, or that he knew that at a certain time the water level in a certain body of water diminished and that a strip of land just below the surface was available to walk on.

Man, he pulled the wool over so many eyes for about 2000 years. If he was, he deserves the award for best con artist ever!

Mr. P.

The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.

Jeremy1952 · Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:27 pm Post subject: Re: Belief in God

There is a book on the topic, very popular in the 60's: The Passover Plot.

No I don't think that, if the person actually even existed, he was a con artist. Where was the profit? I mean, we look at this in hindsight and say, yea it would be cool to be famous for centuries, but would that really motivate a prestidigitator? Most cons just want the money (or sex).

If you make yourself really small, you can externalize virtually everything. Daniel Dennett, 1984

Mr. Pessimistic · Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:42 pm Post subject: Re: Belief in God

Who knows how many groupies this guy may have had?

I will check out that book, if for nothing else than a laugh.

I have, but have not started yet, the book "Holy Blood, Holy Grail". Have you ever heard of it or read it? It presents the Historical Jesus as an average person, refuting the Bible stories.

Mr. P.

The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.

RickU · Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: Belief in God

Edited out because I'm a moron!

Edited by: RickU at: 7/14/04 5:12 am

Jeremy1952 · Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2004 4:06 pm Post subject: Re: Belief in God

No, but it's not really my cuppa t

If you make yourself really small, you can externalize virtually everything. Daniel Dennett, 1984

Mr. Pessimistic · Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2004 5:35 pm Post subject: Re: Belief in God

Rick:

I confused...What strip of land? I was talking about Jesus walking on water.

Higher Ground is good, I stay there more often than not...but I need to regress every once in a while...

Mr. P.

The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.


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