Atheist heroes from fiction

Frank 013 · Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 4:02 pm Post subject: Atheist heroes from fiction

I guess this goes in the religion forum?

My question today is what fictional atheist heroes have you seen in cinema, TV, or novels?

Off the top of my head I can only think of a few, Malcolm Reynolds from Firefly and Serenity, Jody Fosters character from Contact, Han Solo from Star Wars (Solo later became a believer in the force).

I suspect 30 years ago I would have had even fewer examples. In my experience most fictional material leaves the question of a character's religion out entirely, unless it is important to the plot.

Do any of you have any to add? I know there are more, I just can’t think of any right now.

Later

MaesterAuron151 · Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:51 pm Post subject: Re: Atheist heroes from fiction

Edward Elric, from Fullmetal Alchemist, although later he realizes some of his views on alchemy are faith based.

Saint Gasoline · Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:42 pm Post subject: Re: Atheist heroes from fiction

Atheist heroes, you say?

Perhaps my favorite atheist character is the main character of Graham Greene's book "A Burnt-Out Case", and I highly recommend this book, as well. It is one of my favorites.

Another famous atheist is the doctor from Albert Camus' "The Plague", which is basically a full frontal assault on the idea that one can't be moral without religion.

Then, of course, there is Ivan Karamazov from Dostoevesky's "The Brothers Karamazov". He isn't really the hero of the book, but he makes many interesting points, and his story about the Grand Inquisitor is one of the most famous atheistic arguments from literature ever.

I also like Yossarian from Catch-22, and though he isn't obviously an atheist, some of the remarks in the book imply it--he asks, for instance, where a benevolent God finds a place in his universe for tooth decay.

Ayn Rand's "The Fountainhead" also features an atheistic architect. It's a long book, and it is a bit philosophically muddled, but it still tells a pretty engaging story.

In movies, the main character of Seventh Seal is a great example of an atheistic hero.

I could come up with a lot more, but I'll refrain for the moment for others to have something to chime in with.

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Niall001 · Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:41 am Post subject: --

Gert Yorkes of Runaways

irishrosem · Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 3:39 pm Post subject: Re: --

I just read Orhan Pamuk’s Snow, the protagonist, Ka, is an atheist and theism/atheism is one of the major themes in the book.

Valentin in Puig’s Kiss of the Spiderwoman is an atheist

I think a lot of literary characters, although never explicitly defined as atheists, tend to have atheistic characteristics. For instance, Dr. Frankenstein surely would have been an atheist. As would probably Dorian Gray. But my favorite would be Jane Eyre. In the end of Bronte’s book the protagonist turns from god after being shat on by him throughout her life. Jane always followed the rules of modesty and purity. However, when St. John offered Jane eternal salvation through a life of servitude, she finally returns to Rochester, consciously denying god and her soul’s salvation. One of the most fantastic story endings. Ironic it’s one of my favorites, since it entails a woman running back to her man. I guess I don’t mind quasi-stereotypic depictions of female relationships when the character is defying god in the process. It also illustrates how women didn’t have many choices outside of marriage and god (nunnery).

Last, and this is a bit of a stretch, does Celie in The Color Purple really believe in god?

This is a fun one, can’t wait to see who else we get.

Oh, one more, wasn’t Aaron in Titus Andronicus an atheist? I bet there are a bunch in Shakespeare’s plays.

scrumfish · Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:12 pm Post subject: Athiest Characters in Fiction

The tv show House features some atheist characters. The main character, Dr. Gregory House, is not explicitly called an atheist, but it was assumed he was by one of the patients and it is sort of implied sometimes. There was one episode named "House vs. God" in which he treated a faith healer. One of the things I like best about the show is that the character who is definitely an atheist and talks about not believing in gods is one of the more emotional characters that believes in the goodness of people, upsetting the stereotype of cold, unemotional atheists. House is a Fox show, I think, and USA plays reruns. It is my new favorite show.

MadArchitect · Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:31 pm Post subject: Re: Athiest Characters in Fiction

irishrosem: Oh, one more, wasn’t Aaron in Titus Andronicus an atheist? I bet there are a bunch in Shakespeare’s plays.

Was he? I thought he was simply called atheist in the classical sense -- ie. someone who doesn't believe in our gods.

As for literary atheist heroes, there was a big write-up on Thomas Hardy's atheism in last week's New Yorker. You guys might want to check that one out. He isn't fictional, but he was certainly literary.

Mr. Pessimistic · Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 6:08 pm Post subject: Re: Athiest Characters in Fiction

I think that Moorcocks Eternal Champion series shows many athiest tendencies. Yes, there exist gods and other supernatural forces, but it seems to me that many are explained as creations of the human mind. The concepts of magic and science are interchangeable, based on the particular plane of the multiverse the story takes place.

If I had to pick one aspect of the Eternal Champion that is an atheist, it would be Hawkmoon. The world of Hawkmoon is also more geared toward science and not religion.

But overall, I take Moorcock's works to be, while not necessarily anti-religion, tending toward a more realistic approach to the place of religion in the grand scheme of things.

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Loricat · Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:21 am Post subject: Re: Athiest Characters in Fiction

irishrosem (on Jane Eyre):

Quote:
One of the most fantastic story endings. Ironic it’s one of my favorites, since it entails a woman running back to her man. I guess I don’t mind quasi-stereotypic depictions of female relationships when the character is defying god in the process. It also illustrates how women didn’t have many choices outside of marriage and god

It's a great feminist ending -- she breaks all conventions, turns down a rather noble path, goes back to a passionate love who she should have steered clear of. She gets exactly what she truly wants. Isn't that the most admiral of goals? (Off topic, have you tried Jasper Fforde's "The Eyre Affair"? Fun book.)

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irishrosem · Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 3:09 pm Post subject: Re: Athiest Characters in Fiction

I also love that Jane does not accept Mr. Rochester until she is truly independent, both in body and mind. I think Bronte infers that a true marriage requires equal footing for both partners prior to the marriage. I haven't read The Eyre Affair. I don't tend to like modern books based off classics, I'm assuming that is the premise for the book. Is it any good?

Mad: Was he? I thought he was simply called atheist in the classical sense -- ie. someone who doesn't believe in our gods.

Hmmm...I thought it was all gods. I might check it out, but it's a darn bloody play that I don't relish reading again.

I think Tyrion in Song of Ice and Fire acts like an atheist, though he never explicitly states it that I know of. It is clear that he has no time for either the new or old gods.

Edited by: irishrosem at: 1/18/07 3:17 pm

irishrosem · Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:52 pm Post subject: Re: Athiest Characters in Fiction

Quote:
LUCIUS: Who should I swear by? Thou believest no god.
That granted, how canst thou believe an oath?

AARON: What if I do not?—as indeed I do not—
Yet for I know thou art religious
And hast a thing within thee called conscience,
With twenty popish tricks and ceremonies
Which I have seen thee careful to observe,
Therefore I urge thy oath; for that I know
An idiot holds his bauble for a god,
And keeps the oath which by that god he swears,
To that I’ll urge him, therefore thou shalt vow
By that same god, what god soe’er it be,
That thou adorest and hast in reference,
To save my boy, to nurse and bring him up,
Or else I will discover naught to thee.
(Titus Andronicus, 5.1.71-85)

There are other minor references here and there throughout the play, most notably the Goth reporting that he overheard Aaron saying to his son: “Had nature lent thee but thy mother’s look” (5.1.29). I think it pretty obvious from Lucius’s statement and Aaron’s response that there is no god which Aaron believes in. He goes on to ridicule the faithful comparing one who keeps his oath to god to “An idiot holds his bauble for a god” (bauble meaning a jester’s stick according to Norton’s Shakespeare Anthology).

I think, more than this direct claim to atheism, the story itself leans to an atheistic reading. In Shakespeare, the juxtaposition of scenes is important in drawing out his implicit messages. When Titus has Aaron chop off his hand to exchange for his sons lives (heads) he exclaims:

Quote:
O, here I lift this one hand up to heaven
And bow this feeble ruin to the earth.
[He kneels]
If any power pities wretched tears,
To that I call. [To Lavinia, who kneels] What, wouldst thou kneel with me?
Do then, dear heart; for heaven shall hear our prayers…

Yet, to end Titus’s monologue, a messenger enters with the heads of his sons and his hand, and sets them before Titus. That is how his prayer is answered. It is important to note the stage directions, because Shakespeare included only very few, necessary directions. It is obvious he intended this monologue to be a prayer.

All of Titus Andronicus plays with ideas of norms and accepted “proper” constructs for morality. Why at the end of the play are you rooting for Aaron? At the very time he says, “If one good deed in all my life I did/ I do repent it from my very soul” (5.3.188-189), why are we marveling at his devotion to his son? Why is it Aaron’s seed that survives, if his actions are so depraved? And why does Shakespeare give him the most beautiful lines of the drama? Why is he the wittiest, smartest and most charismatic character on the stage? For me, Aaron is not only an atheist. He is a character totally depraved of any respect for accepted forms of morality; but someone we are supposed to like, nonetheless. I think it gives the audience pause to know all of Aaron’s horrible actions, but to feel sympathy and a liking for him in the end. I think this feat is also the only saving grace of a truly bloody, relatively plebeian work.

I thought of another character. Vianne from Chocolat was an atheist.


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