American Exceptionalism

DWill · Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:36 am

Funny about Tom Paine--you sample his works, such as The Age of Reason, and you think, "Definitely not an atheist." But he was adamantly not a Christian, which is his day would be equivalent to atheism. I think it's possible that Paine--and Jefferson, too--might actually have put more credence in the OT than in the NT. This was before science had overturned the creation myths of the OT. Just possibly, Paine might have believed in the Flood.

Back to exceptionalism. The old Puritan John Winthrop might have had the best say on it. He said that the society the Pilgrims would create would be as a shining city on a hill, and by that he meant not to boast about what would be (he was a Puritan, after all), but to say that the Puritan state would be conspicuous in the eyes of the world. They had a lot to live up to. I think this still is how we should see ourselves, as a society that strives to live up to ideals of freedom and equality, but never complacently considers the job at an end. It should have nothing to do with the belief that we've earned the right to say we're better than another country. That's just immature playground stuff.

Interbane · Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:31 pm

I think perhaps one of the factors in our decline has to do with a side effect of prosperity. Once a certain level of prosperity is reached, it's difficult for new young people to understand the hard work that has gone on by their forefathers. The same hard work is needed to sustain that prosperity. A life of youthful "luxury"(in relative terms) instills an entitlement philosophy, unless the parents have worked hard to curb that mentality. The necessities of life in America are no longer water, food, and shelter. They are water, food, shelter, electricity, phone, and even internet. Some youngsters with warped perspectives would consider a car a necessity, or a house, or a television, or AC, or a couch, or a cellphone. Some of those things may be necessary to live a successful life, but a successful life depends on each individual's actions. They are not entitled to these amenities, they must earn them. That requires hard work, which is often hidden behind the curtains of their parent's efforts.

To make the problem worse, many parents fear to let their children experience any sort of culture shock, so wean them off the pampering too slowly for the lesson to take effect, and still help too much during minor emergencies which would otherwise be a great learning experience that the young adult can't get anywhere else. Some parents never stop pampering, as their wealth is vast enough to cover generations of entitled plutocrats.

Sometimes I think there is some vastly complicated ebb and flow of zeitgeist that is influenced by a crazy amount of variables which can create a "characteristic" mindset within a country. In general and on average. Cultural influences such as the popularity of suntans in the 20's, the promotion of endless luxuries as status symbols, the deification of millionaires through the passionate stories of their success.

Perhaps another variable is addiction. Not specific addiction to any one drug, but the idea that we have the neurochemicals which rewards us for doing certain things. Watching television, browsing the internet, watching a movie, playing a game, etc. We're all addicted to many things to some extent. Some of these things are minor and acceptable and we do not need to overly exert our willpower to defy the desire. Other things we enjoy a bit too much, and spend too much time doing even though we realize the problem. These things aren't so bad to call "addictions", but that is what they are, merely to a lesser degree. The chemical process that goes on in the brain still happens, but a neurochemical rush is analog rather than digital(if that makes sense), and just a little bit can be released. The barest whisper of a puppetteer string, slight enough that it may go unnoticed. I'd like to see some experiment that measures releases of neurochemicals, then plots them all on a line graph spanning the length of a day. I'm sure you'd see a randomly oscillating series of lines, spiking up and down, staying lower most of the time, and perhaps having periods of zero activity. But the variety of activity would be interesting to see and to contemplate, especially if you could overlay the bar graph with a summary of what happened during the day, and match different neurotransmitters to different actions(huge spike of dopamine during sex for example, or a small spike when seeing a chick in a bikini on TV.)

Robert Tulip · Mon Jul 04, 2011 3:31 am


	DWill wrote: Paine--and Jefferson, too--might actually have put more credence in the OT than in the NT. This was before science had overturned the creation myths of the OT. Just possibly, Paine might have believed in the Flood.

The exceptional thing about Paine was he called it as he saw it.


	Quote: Thomas Paine On Biblical Anachronism In addition to the judicious remarks in your twelfth number, on the absurd story of Noah's Flood, in Genesis vii, I send you the following: The second verse makes God to say unto Noah, “Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female, and of every beast that are not clean, by two, the male and his female." Now, there was no such thing as beasts clean and unclean in the time of Noah. Neither were there any such people as Jews or Israelites at that time, to whom that distinction was a law. The law, called the Law of Moses, by which a distinction is made, beasts clean and unclean, was not until several hundred years after the time that Noah is said to have lived. The story, therefore, detects itself, because the inventor forgot himself, by making God make use of an expression that could not be used at the time. The blunder is of the same kind, as if a man in telling a story about America a hundred years ago, should quote an expression from Mr. Jefferson's inaugural speech as if spoken by him at that time. My opinion of this story is the same as what a man once said to another, who asked him in a drawling tone of voice, "Do you believe the account about No-ah?" The other replied in the same tone of voice, ah-no.

Saffron · Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:03 pm

Riding in my car this afternoon I heard a very interesting radio program that relates to this topic. It was the Kojo Nnamdi Show with historian Daniel K. Richter. He was discussing his book America Before the Revolution. The idea of American Exceptionalism was brought up several times.

http://thekojonnamdishow.org/shows/2011 ... ebroadcast

From the website:
How deep do you have to dig to understand the origins of the United States? Traditionally, the story of our national origin begins with a clean slate; European settlers and colonizers arriving on a relatively pristine continent. But in historian Daniel Richter's view, a confluence of environmental, economic and cultural forces on both sides of the Atlantic profoundly influenced America's pre-colonial and colonial trajectory. We explore America's history, before the Revolution.
Link to the book, which BTW, would be fun to read.
http://www.amazon.com/Before-Revolution ... 0674055802

giselle · Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:08 pm

Saffron: I checked out the book you recommended and I agree it would make a good read and discussion. This American Exceptionalism thread is interesting, particularly good reading on July 4.

DWill · Tue Jul 05, 2011 6:02 pm

I like a book that shows us how oversimplified our view of the past is, and it sounds as though America Before the Revolution does just that. I'd be interested in reading it, too.

An exceptionalist view of America will emphasize the uniqueness and non-indebtedness of the country, as if we're not beholden to other times and peoples for what we became. There's something in common there with Bible exceptionalism, according to which the Jews and then the Christians had a unique genesis.

Saffron · Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:11 pm


	DWill wrote: An exceptionalist view of America will emphasize the uniqueness and non-indebtedness of the country, as if we're not beholden to other times and peoples for what we became. There's something in common there with Bible exceptionalism, according to which the Jews and then the Christians had a unique genesis.

Very interesting connection. Did you come up with it?

JulianTheApostate · Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:34 am

The recent Republican comments about American exceptionalism were a response to the following statement of Obama's:


	Quote: "I believe in American exceptionalism, just as I suspect that the Brits believe in British exceptionalism and the Greeks believe in Greek exceptionalism. I'm enormously proud of my country and its role and history in the world. If you think about the site of this summit and what it means, I don't think America should be embarrassed to see evidence of the sacrifices of our troops, the enormous amount of resources that were put into Europe postwar, and our leadership in crafting an Alliance that ultimately led to the unification of Europe. We should take great pride in that. "And if you think of our current situation, the United States remains the largest economy in the world. We have unmatched military capability. And I think that we have a core set of values that are enshrined in our Constitution, in our body of law, in our democratic practices, in our belief in free speech and equality, that, though imperfect, are exceptional. "Now, the fact that I am very proud of my country and I think that we've got a whole lot to offer the world does not lessen my interest in recognizing the value and wonderful qualities of other countries, or recognizing that we're not always going to be right, or that other people may have good ideas, or that in order for us to work collectively, all parties have to compromise and that includes us. "And so I see no contradiction between believing that America has a continued extraordinary role in leading the world towards peace and prosperity and recognizing that that leadership is incumbent, depends on, our ability to create partnerships because we create partnerships because we can't solve these problems alone."

I agree with that sentiment completely, though Obama is vastly more eloquent than I could ever hope to be. Someone of my other opinions would be inappropriate for Obama to say, if he even agreed with them.

American exceptionalism is difficult for me to accept because of areas in which other countries are superior to the United States. The world would be a much better place if the US had universal medical care, the way most developed nations do, and if the US were more reluctant to start wars. Though the US has been very good to me personally, it has strengths and weaknesses, just as other countries do.

Also, excessive arrogance is not a good thing. For example, if someone loudly proclaimed that their family was better than anyone else's, most people would see that person as a jerk. Claims that "my country is better than all others" seem inappropriate for similar reasons.

Finally, American exceptionalism and patriotism strike me as special cases of the general beliefs in nationalism and the superiority of certain societal groups. Those attitudes are responsible for many of the worst acts in history: wars, slavery, and oppression. Such associations make me shy away from the concept of American exceptionalism.

DWill · Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:25 am

Saffron wrote:


	DWill wrote: An exceptionalist view of America will emphasize the uniqueness and non-indebtedness of the country, as if we're not beholden to other times and peoples for what we became. There's something in common there with Bible exceptionalism, according to which the Jews and then the Christians had a unique genesis.

Very interesting connection. Did you come up with it?

Well, who knows. You read so much of this 'n that, and forget where you read it, that it's often difficult to say what is original, if anything is. But I note that to you this sounds suspiciously above the level of my usual insights! :lol:

DWill · Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:19 pm

It was a theologian, of all people, who pointed out the "persistent sin of American exceptionalism." Reinhold Niebuhr had much of interest to say in The Irony of American History, a book that so strongly influenced Andrew Bacevich's writing in The Limits of Power.

The problem for me lies in the assumption by some that the United States has an inherent quality that sets it apart from all other nations. What the U.S. has, or has had, going for it can be discussed more or less objectively, but its accomplishments have been due to efforts all along the way to maintain a belief in a certain type of citizenship and role in the world. We can certainly lose whatever we've gained by losing track of what it took to get where we are. No power, certainly not God, will bless us just because we are America. A cause for worry is when we need to talk so much about how exceptional we are.

As JtA mentioned, we also need to confront our weaknesses, currently and in history. We persisted, for example, in the institution of chattel slavery long after other advanced nations had renounced it.

Forum rules

American Exceptionalism Tweet This Topic

Who is online

Chat Room Always Open!