ACLU vs. Boy Scouts

irondemon · Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:55 pm Post subject: Attn: Eric Hagelin

In your most recent post, you included a passage form an opinion written by former Chief Justice Burger in the case LEMON V. KURTZMAN:

"No significant segment of our society and no institution within it can exist in a vacuum or in total or absolute isolation from all the other parts, much less from government. Nor does the Constitution require complete separation of church and state; it affirmatively mandates accommodation, not merely tolerance, of all religions, and forbids hostility toward any." (Chief Justice Warren Burger. Lemon v. Kurtzman.)

I could not locate this passage. From my research of Sup. Ct. decisions concerning LEMON (10 minor motions, 2 actual major opinions from 1971 - 1973), the closest I could find was this:

"The Supreme Court's prior holdings do not call for total separation between church and state; total separation is not possible in an absolute sense. Some relationship between government and religious organizations is inevitable." Lemon v. Kurtzman, 403 U.S. 602, 614.

Are you certain your passage is taken directly form the opinion? I ask because, though the two passages touch on similar subject matter, their tones with respect to that subject matter differ, not insignificantly I think.

Also, it is interesting that you chose to cite as supportive of your position a case wherein it was held that a statute that provided aid to church-related elementary and secondary schools violated the Establishment and Free Exercise Clauses of the First Amendment, and the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. I do concede, however, that the LEMON test is no longer used (though it was never expressly overruled).

I'm curious, also, as to what your response is to the citations in the previous posts regarding the ACLU's backing of many Christian claimants? How do you reconsile the fact that the ACLU does support Christians with your assertions to the contrary?

Niall001 · Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:27 pm Post subject: Re: Attn: Eric Hagelin

I'm afraid that Eric left the forum because of the implementation of a no-surfing policy in his workplace, so I'm afraid he isn't likely to reply.

Let us agree, there is no one single reality. Not upon this stage, not in this world, all is in the mind... imagination is the only truth. Because it cannot be contradicted except by other imaginations - Richard Matheson

There are no conclusive indications by which waking life can be distinguished from sleep - Rene Descartes

irondemon · Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:07 am Post subject: I see

Good to know. Thanks.

jjacobs43 · Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:22 pm Post subject: Re: I see

Quote:
I'm curious, also, as to what your response is to the citations in the previous posts regarding the ACLU's backing of many Christian claimants? How do you reconsile the fact that the ACLU does support Christians with your assertions to the contrary?

I too wonder this. It amazes me how the ACLU gets painted as such an evil organization when their objective is to stick up for the little guy. Let's see, who else is evil? The ADL, College Professors, the media, Hollywood...on & on. Somehow, this all get's started and repeated enough until it is fact.

As was stated earlier in this thread...

Quote:
Not one time has the ACLU taken a stand for a Christians rights, thats a fact.

See...somehow this is now a "known" fact by many people.

pctacitus · Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:02 am Post subject: Re: ACLU vs. Boy Scouts

Did anyone else see the episode of South Park about this subject?

Doug Larson: “The cat could very well be man's best friend but would never stoop to admitting it."


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