A fear of death.

Jnoir · Wed May 04, 2011 1:58 am

I'm 16 years old and i fear death. It's coming to the point where it's all i think about. Up until about two years ago you could consider me a Christian, my family members are all Jehovah's Witnesses. I started questioning my faith after reading many books such as “The God Delusion” by Richard Dawkins, The Greatest Show on Earth by Richard Dawkins, and "God is not great" By Christopher Hitchens.
I've also read a lot of discussions on this site on matters such as Creationism and Evolution.

I've come to the point where one could consider me an atheist. But i miss being a Christian, i really do. I miss knowing that my late loved ones were in heaven and that there was nothing but good things coming for me after death. I miss not having to worry about things such as the meaning of life, or if my life has any meaning at all. Some days i just try to believe in Jesus and God and the bible, but it's just not the same. My question is is there any hope of anything other than an oblivion of nothingness after death? If not, how do you cope? Do you just not think about death, or have you come to accept death without fear ( if so how).

Please help, if not i fear the worse, going back to being a sheep.

lady of shallot · Wed May 04, 2011 10:59 am

Hi Jnoir,

Just lost my started reply. . . most annoying! First my advice is to find a trustworthy, intelligent, sensitive adult to personally address your concerns with. Preferably someone who is not religious and someone who will not take advantage of you and your sensitivities.

Further there are many people like you. Tat Vas Asam who is a member here but some years older has had a similar history to yours. Seek out posts from him on this site.

Next, don't worry about what happens after death at this time. You have many more years to live and you can set that problem aside for an older Jnoir to deal with.

You are about the age of my grandson. I have been an atheist since about your age or maybe a little earlier. Mostly I started with just not liking the messages in my church (Episcopalian) I really disliked the idea of man as flawed and sinful. Even at 13 or so I could see how difficult life was for people (I was born in the depression and raised during WW 2) and that seemed really wrong to heap criticism upon difficulty. I still though thought Jesus had been a real person, just not divine or born in the way the Bible said. As I got older I realized it was all just malarky. Personally the thought that there is no "life" after death does not concern me at all.

Relationships with others, family members, mates, friends, bosses, etc. etc. can sometimes be difficult and fractious. Why would I want to live that through eternity? Life is a glorious wonderful thing. Learning things, falling in love, the joy of having children. Accomplishing goals. Helping others, being kind. Each stage of life brings wonderful new discoveries and alas also new problems but over time you learn that you can deal with the problems and that that knowledge strengthens you for the next stage of your life.

Right now my husband is working on our front porch, replacing decking boards and repairing a column. Think of this as a metaphor for life and the problems it presents. He knows now the problem can be tackled and his efforts successful. He knows he has the skills (because he learned over time) to do an effective job. He can take pride in his strength and in his dedication. His results will be admired and his work is a good thing because it is a renewal of long ago efforts by others.

I can't tell you how to feel about your fears because they are yours. I can only tell you that it is possible to live a completely happy life in the here and now with the acceptance and knowledge that there probably is no hereafter in a heavenly sense. What will live on is all the good works you have accomplished while here and the children you have or the nieces and nephews that will continue the life line that you are part of.

johnson1010 · Wed May 04, 2011 1:47 pm

I will respond of a post of my own in a bit, but for now, check out some of these videos on youtube.

Science saved my soul
Half of which, i believe is on this thread. But i would go to youtube to get the whole video.

post87455.html#p87455

Why don't scientists fear hell

what-about-such-and-such-scientist-they-were-religious-t10352.html

There is wonder without religion. There is magesty, there is breathtaking brilliance.

Harry Marks · Thu May 05, 2011 11:46 am

Jnoir,

First, let me say I think lady of shallot's post was really good. Here's a slightly different perspective. Originally, people believed that when you died your soul wandered around for a while. By Jesus' time there was an image of Heaven as "up" and the other way, something different. But for me, the imagery should never be a matter of concern. The value for me of an image of my younger brother (who died more than 10 years ago) "in Heaven" is that it is a way of saying, "I am not just putting him out of my mind and getting on with things. His life still matters to me. The love I felt for him is still alive." I don't worry about whether that imagery is "really, really" true. I just get it out and rub it against my mind every once in awhile, like a favorite teddy bear.

lady of shallot · Thu May 05, 2011 12:02 pm

None of us ever put our gone loved ones out of our minds. Just this morning at breakfast I spoke of my husband's sister who died over twenty years ago.

Mostly what I wish is that my parents could know of the wonderful things we have now like the internet and cell phones. I remember them saying the same things about their parents. I also wish they could know how wonderful their many descendants are. Including spouses they have 90 people who descended from their union! How wonderful it is to be part of that long, long chain of beings and how that satisfies me with out needing any myths, to in a way debase the glory of just that.

johnson1010 · Thu May 05, 2011 2:45 pm

its natural to fear your own death.

thinking about your own end is like staring into a deep dark abyss. Its hard to imagine. You are all you've ever known. I understand completely.

What makes this problem worse is having to shrug off the lies told to you by religion. They told you that you were a special magical being which was immortal, deathless, in its own way, and that you would see both the beginning and the end of all that there ever was at the right hand of god...

so long as you swollowed everything they told you, and did as you were instructed.

The truth is less magical, but far more impressive.

You are the son of a stellar supernova. There was no iron, carbon, or gold before the first stars died. All that there was was hydrogen. Only after the parts that make up your body spent billions of years in the super-dense nuclear guts of a star, could you have been formed. You are still special. You are still amazing. Your life is still beyond incredible.

Think of the vast distances of space. All of that is vacuum, except these insignificant pockets of matter called planets and stars. One, just one in this solar system (that we know of) occupying far far less than 1 percent of the volume in our system, there is a planet. That is odd enough, considering that everywhere else is empty space. But on that planet is a fragile assemblage of molecules which can think, and ponder its own existence. That's you. You are the universe considering itself.

The very fact of your existence is less likely than winning the lottery several times over, so yes you are special. You are also not a cosmic pillar that holds up the foundations of creation. Just an animal, like all the others on this planet, but special in your own way.

Religion tells you that you are bad, that you need saving, that you are not worthy of god's love and you can never grasp the truth of reality. But it isn't so.The truth is that you are what you make of yourself, and all that is within the grasp of any human in history is available to you.

You could never sit in the clouds next to god. But you could help your fellow man. You could make sure anybody who touches your life leaves feeling better about themselves. You could care for someone who needs attention. You could protect and guide the younger, and less experienced. You can fill life with vibrance and energy.

Not much, maybe. Compared to the lies of religion. There is no glowing pillar of undeniable good for you to stand next to. But there is also no place for you to burn forever in firey torment for not flattering that golden cow thoroughly enough.

Your body will die. And you will cease to be. But you will live on as we all do. In the memories of those whose lives you have affected. You can be a demon or an angel. You can have helped life blossom, or you could have squandered your life and the exceedingly valuable time of those around you on petty hatreds and lies.

You live on in what you have taught, and long after even the memory of your name has faded, the wisdom you passed can live on vibrantly in the minds of young people who may never have known you, but benefited from your knowledge. Because of you, they could accomplish what they could not otherwise. That is an enduring legacy to achieve. Not for personal glory, or for a name to withstand the ages, but real help from beyond the grave.

You have only one life to live. Don't spend it thinking about how it will end.

Treat every day as a golden opportunity and make everyone of them count. Nobody will ever get that time back, and there is nothing we can do about that. But what time there is we can fill with joy.

Frank 013 · Thu May 05, 2011 2:52 pm

It’s funny, I have never been afraid of death… I can never remember a time when I was afraid of the big D! I have even risked my ass more than a few times in the past. I suppose I think of death as a natural part of life and know that one day I will end… this simple realization holds no dread to me for many reasons.

First of all I do not suffer from any early exposure to religion and carry none of its emotional baggage, but I also think that I do not fear death because I have accomplished so much. I have probably lived more in my forty two years than most people do in a hundred and I am not done yet. If I were to die today I know that I have left a positive mark on the world and especially on those who know me best and I will be remembered well.

As far as purpose… I have always been an independent thinker and I find no joy in following others. The idea of being a sheep in a flock is offensive to me… weak. My purpose is of my own making and I am happy for the freedom to peruse the things that I find worthwhile and it is those activities that do bring me fulfillment and joy… but I may be unique in this area, I never wanted to be told what I should do or how to live… I already knew what was right for me and I was never conditioned to think that there was anything wrong with that… sometimes I was wrong, but I simply altered course… no sweat. Life offers many opportunities to the intelligent and resourceful... embody these traits if you can.

I know that one day I will die… life is terminal… this seems to be a universal fact… I am comfortable with this idea… I only want to go out with some dignity and quickly if I have any say in the matter.

Later

lady of shallot · Thu May 05, 2011 3:10 pm

Frank what I find sad in the original post by Jnoir is his age. My grandson is very much the same age and has no such fears or even passing thoughts. That is because he escaped the early conditioning that Jnoir has had. Actually it would be hard to find a more moral or considerate or loving person too than my grandson.

I actually think most messages of religion are evil.

One thing (and its a small thing) is to continue to combat those irrational beliefs that are posted here by our resident fundamentalists.

marcialou · Thu May 05, 2011 5:40 pm

Jnoir,

The universality of death is a tough one to contemplate. I’m not afraid of death in the abstract but if I think it might happen to me anytime soon, I’m terrified. I’ve been an atheist pretty much all my life, so I never experienced the painful loss of faith that you describe. My parents are atheists, too, so it’s never been an issue in the family.

I don’t believe in an afterlife but I’d like to be proven wrong (assuming it’s not the hell some people think is awaiting me.) A funny story: My mother told me a while back that she and my father purchased their funeral plots. She said it was not in the fanciest part (the one that was nicely landscaped) but it’s right next to it, so it would have a nice view. Then she added, that the cemetery was the obvious choice because her entire bridge club would be there.

Now I have the comforting image of my parents eternally playing bridge. I don’t believe it, but it’s a nice thought.

I agree with the comments of previous posters that life can be meaningful, as well as moral, without a belief in God or an eternal system of rewards and punishment. The thing that helps me confront death the most, is oddly enough, the notion that it is “fair,” at least when it comes at the end of a long life. What I find “unfair” is that for most people dying is a painful and degrading business. The way I see it (and to put it very simply), it’s only right that we should “take turns” on this planet. We’re here for a while, and if we’re from the West, we use up a lot of resources. It seems right that we should eventually give up our place for someone else.

I’m 58 years old and have a 3 year old granddaughter. I hope to see her graduate high school and college and maybe even dance at her wedding. But it doesn’t seem right that I should be able to do the same with her own children.

Marcia

Interbane · Thu May 05, 2011 7:29 pm

I fear pain, not death. Fear of death can be as hazardous to your health as reckless adventuring. Pain sucks. I wish there were a switch for it. Lack of pain is leprosy though, and all the goodness and joy would be taken for granted if there were no pain with which to contrast it.

Chris OConnor · Thu May 05, 2011 10:22 pm

Hi Jnoir,

So you're one of those "thinkers" I see. I have to congratulate you for having the courage to even pick up books that challenge your faith. That shows personal strength and character. And at 16-years old you're doing just fine. Don't let anyone convince you that challenging beliefs is wrong. If there is a God and that God is indeed a good God then God would be proud of you for using the brain he gave you for it's intended purpose.

I'm aware of how the Jehovah's Witnesses shun those that leave the church or even exhibit an interest in close associations with worldly people. How have you held up with your parents being JW's? I can only imagine there have been some difficult times.

Jnoir · Thu May 05, 2011 11:39 pm


	Chris OConnor wrote: Hi Jnoir, So you're one of those "thinkers" I see. I have to congratulate you for having the courage to even pick up books that challenge your faith. That shows personal strength and character. And at 16-years old you're doing just fine. Don't let anyone convince you that challenging beliefs is wrong. If there is a God and that God is indeed a good God then God would be proud of you for using the brain he gave you for it's intended purpose. I'm aware of how the Jehovah's Witnesses shun those that leave the church or even exhibit an interest in close associations with worldly people. How have you held up with your parents being JW's? I can only imagine there have been some difficult times.

I have not even brought it up, and i don't ever plan to. It would not end well if i did, see to them what they believe is not just faith, it is fact. If i did talk about it, i know what they would say, something along the lines of "the devil's got me" followed by many extra visits
to our local kingdom hall. And also i see the comfort their faith brings them, there is not a doubt in their mind that they are destined for salvation, and i don't want them to have to worry about me not getting there with them.

Jnoir · Fri May 06, 2011 12:21 am

Many people have been PMing me and id like to thank all of you. Most, if not all, are telling me i should be reading more from both sides, and have recommended books from pro-religion authors. I have read the bible, and i thought that was enough representation from the "pro Jesus" argument, but i will try others. Though i'm not sure if human authors can reassure me of what the bible ( which is suppose to be god's word) could not. Thank you for your help. I would also like to thank everyone who have offered help from a pro-atheist stand point, it has been very helpful.

hesse · Fri May 06, 2011 8:18 am

Welcome J, and congratulations on embarking on this journey. I was fully 2 years older than you when I became aware enough to confront my fear of death, to stop clinging to life like a barnacle on a rock, and allow myself to float freely in the river of life.

I too came from a very religious family but the teachings they spoke of never really resonated with me....

I have 2 caveats for your journey: The path is long and arduous, and you must choose your advisers wisely, as the Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao...

For me the Hagakure, The Way of the Samurai, speaks to me with clarity. I have learned to meditate on the most hideous of deaths, ultimately becoming free from fear, and furthermore free from choice.

This from the 1st chapter:

"We all want to live. And in large part we make our logic according to what we like. But not having attained our aim and countinuing to live is cowardice. This is a thin and dangerous line. To die without gaining one's aim is a dog's death and fanaticism. But there is no shame in this. This is the substance of the Way of the Samurai. If by setting one's heart right every morning and evening, one is able to live as though his body were already dead, he gains the freedom in the Way. His whole life will be without blame, and he will suceed in his calling."

stahrwe · Fri May 06, 2011 8:55 am

Jnoir


	Quote: There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

1Jn 4:18

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